5.Jared Der-Yeghiayan — Redirect (Part 10)
452 linesREDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: Good afternoon, Special Agent Der-Yeghiayan.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Good afternoon.
MR. TURNER: Good to talk to you again. On cross, you were asked about the difficulty of figuring out who was on the other side of the screen when you were talking to DPR, Dread Pirate Roberts?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I was.
MR. TURNER: And am I right that every conversation you had with him was on Tor?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Every conversation I had with him was on Tor, yes.
MR. TURNER: And he was security conscious, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: He was security conscious, yes.
MR. TURNER: Did he reveal many personal details about himself in the conversations he had with you?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No. Nothing personal.
MR. TURNER: So it was hard for you to figure out who DPR was just from your own line of communications with him, is that right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was difficult to try to identify who the real person was, yes.
MR. TURNER: So what was the whole purpose of arranging the arrest the way that you did it?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: You testified on direct that you would be -- the plan for the arrest was what?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: The plan for the arrest was to try to get Mr. Ulbricht in a public setting and then to initiate a chat with Dread Pirate Roberts for the purposes of seeing if --
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: I will allow it.
You may continue.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: For the purposes of seeing if the chat would match between the person we were arresting and Dread Pirate Roberts.
MR. TURNER: To see who was on the other side of the screen that day?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: I'll allow it.
You may answer.
MR. TURNER: And when you saw the defendant go into the library that day, you were monitoring DPR online, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I was.
MR. TURNER: And when he walked in was DPR online or offline?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: When he walked in, he was offline.
MR. TURNER: And after he went in, what happened to DPR's online status?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: He went online.
MR. DRATEL: Objection as to form.
THE COURT: Overruled.
MR. TURNER: Did you start chatting with DPR after he went online?
MR. DRATEL: Objection to form.
THE COURT: I'll allow it.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: And what happened to the chat once the defendant was arrested?
MR. DRATEL: I'm going to object based on the chat because it's unclear what kind of chat. This whole thing about online is a specific medium that they were communicating through, not anything precise.
THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, the chat that's been referred to so far has not been oral communications, it's been the written chat.
MR. DRATEL: That's not what I mean.
THE COURT: I'm going to -- why don't you, Mr. Turner, why don't you back up and talk about the type of chat and I will allow it.
MR. TURNER: Sure. The jury heard about this chat before.
Can we put up Government Exhibit 129C back on the screen. Zoom in on the text please up at the top. Could you zoom in on the text, Mr. Evert. There you go.
MR. TURNER: Now do you know what chat I'm talking about?
MR. DRATEL: That's not the issue. The issue is the medium.
THE COURT: I will allow it.
MR. DRATEL: It's not --
THE COURT: I'll allow it. We've been through this on direct. It's more of the same.
You may proceed, Mr. Turner.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you please zoom in to the right side of the screen. Zoom in fully. Perfect. Thanks.
MR. TURNER: Okay. So do you remember this chat, Agent Der-Yeghiayan?
THE COURT: This is GX 129C?
MR. TURNER: Yes.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: What happened in the chat after the defendant was arrested?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There was no response from dread.
MR. TURNER: And when you went up to the library to look at the defendant's computer, what did you see on the screen?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I saw an identical chat that I just had with Dread Pirate Roberts.
MR. TURNER: Who was on the other side of the screen that day?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Ross Ulbricht.
MR. TURNER: Now, let's take a look at this chat -- by the time you had this chat, you had been working for DPR for how long?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Since late July 2013.
MR. TURNER: Over two months, right?
MR. TURNER: You had had numerous chats with him up to this point before, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I had.
MR. TURNER: Could just anybody strike up a chat with DPR on this system?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, they could not.
MR. TURNER: What did you have to have?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: You had to have log-in credentials that are provided by Dread Pirate Roberts.
MR. TURNER: And how did he provide those to you?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was provided to the original operator through a private message.
MR. TURNER: And it was a private message on the Silk Road forum, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it was.
MR. TURNER: And would DPR ever contact you on the Silk Road forum?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: He would send private messages to me, yes.
MR. TURNER: Would he sometimes tell you to get on chat?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, he would.
MR. TURNER: And then after he told you that on the Silk Road forum, what would happen on the chat window?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Then he would initiate a chat with me on the staff chat.
(Continued on next page)
MR. TURNER: So the connection between the DPR on the Silk Road and the DPR on the chat was seamless, is that right?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Why don't you rephrase that.
MR. TURNER: Sure.
MR. TURNER: What credentials did you have to have to log into your chat account in the staff chat system?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I had to have a unique username, which wasn't really a username. It was a string of characters and numbers, and a password. Again, that was provided to me.
MR. TURNER: So what did DPR have to have in order to log into his side of the chat?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: What did any user of this sort of system have to have in order to log into the chat?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: They had to have a username and a password, I'm assuming.
MR. TURNER: Was there ever a time when you were chatting with DPR where someone seemed to take over your account and start sending messages to DPR that you had no control over?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Can you repeat that.
MR. TURNER: Was there ever a time when you were chatting with DPR and someone seemed to take over your account and send messages to DPR that you had no control over?
MR. TURNER: It never happened.
So on the date of the defendant's arrest, when you started up this chat with DPR -- if you go back to the chat, please. You can leave it up on the screen. Could you actually back out a little bit more. Right here.
You start off the chat, you said, "Hi." And DPR said back, "Hey." Right?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: Is that how the chat went?
MR. TURNER: He didn't ask why are you appearing on my screen?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: He didn't say who are you?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Why don't you just ask him what the communication consisted of.
MR. TURNER: When you say "check out," "can you check out one of the flagged messages for me," you were referring back to a prior conversation you had had with him earlier, is that right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I was.
MR. TURNER: What conversation was that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There was multiple chats that I had with him ever since he provided me access to that administrator page and to the flagged message section of the marketplace.
MR. TURNER: When did he first show you the flagged messages page?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I would have to go back on the exhibit.
MR. TURNER: Was it days before or weeks before or even longer before?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was weeks before.
MR. TURNER: So weeks before you had this chat he had shown you the flagged messages screen?
MR. TURNER: And when you brought it up here, he didn't say what flagged messages screen are you talking about?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: He said, "Sure, let me login."
What did he have to log into in order to get to the flagged messages screen?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: In order to access that page, you would have to have administrator rights. So you would have to have an account that would have access to that support page.
MR. TURNER: Then later he asked you, unprompted, "You did bitcoin exchange before you started working for me, right?"
Now, the person you took over the Scout account from, the Cirrus account from, what kind of business was she involved in?
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Foundation.
MR. TURNER: If you know?
MR. DRATEL: Foundation.
THE COURT: Why don't you try to build up a foundation for it, first.
MR. TURNER: Do you know what sort of business the person who took over the Scout account or --
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Foundation.
THE COURT: No. Let me just hear the question first and then I will decide if I will let him answer.
MR. TURNER: Do you know what sort of business the person who was engaged -- excuse me.
Do you know what sort of business the person who you took over this Cirrus account was engaged in?
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Foundation.
THE COURT: Can you answer that "yes" or "no"?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
THE COURT: All right. How did you obtain that information?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There was --
THE COURT: Just tell me generally the source of information that you used.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: CLEAR. It is a database. So it is a government operated account that we have that gives business data based upon like Social Security number, things of that nature linked to a person, so it will tell if they have a business registered to him.
THE COURT: All right. I will allow the question.
MR. DRATEL: I am still going to object on foundation.
THE COURT: I hear you.
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: What sort of business was that person involved in?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: They had a bitcoin business.
MR. TURNER: Had you ever mentioned to DPR on your Cirrus account that you were involved in a bitcoin exchange business?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Not that I recall.
MR. TURNER: You never represented that in your undercover capacity?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: So if DPR knew this from Cirrus, he would have heard it before you took over the account --
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: -- is that right?
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: When did you take over the Cirrus account?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Late July of 2013.
MR. TURNER: So that would have been information conveyed to DPR more than two months before this conversation, is that right?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: You can ask it differently but he can't answer that question. Sustained.
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: After you saw the chat on the defendant's computer, you eventually took part in the search of the defendant's residence, is that right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I did.
MR. TURNER: And you testified about the handwritten notes you recovered from Mr. Ulbricht's bedroom, is that right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: And during cross-examination, the defense asked you something like would someone running Silk Road be so careless to leave notes like that in the trash; do you remember that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do recall that, yes.
MR. TURNER: Can you put the notes back up, by the way, Government Exhibit 130.
MR. TURNER: Do these notes say Silk Road on them anywhere?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, they do not.
MR. TURNER: Do they say illegal drugs on them anywhere?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, they do not.
MR. TURNER: How were you able to recognize what these notes were about?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: From my account that I was operating on Silk Road and being active in the Silk Road forums, it was something that stood out to me.
MR. TURNER: If a random person picks these notes --
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: -- out of a trash bin, would they have any idea that they concerned Silk Road?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: By the way, you said earlier that you identified Ross Ulbricht's bedroom in the residence by the personal effects that were inside the bedroom, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I did.
MR. TURNER: Passport, credit cards, that sort of thing?
MR. TURNER: Did you recover the personal effects of anyone else in that bedroom?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There was another alias, I believe, on one of the documents.
MR. TURNER: Beside "alias" documents, did there appeared to be anyone else who lived in that bedroom with him?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: I will allow it.
MR. TURNER: By the way, you were asked on cross about travel records that you reviewed for Mr. Ulbricht?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I was.
MR. TURNER: And I think you testified you saw maybe one trip or two trips a year, something like that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I believe that was what I recall, yes.
MR. TURNER: The travel records you have access to from HSI, do you have access to records for trips anywhere around the world that Mr. Ulbricht took?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Only trips that have an international nexus, so a connection. So it has to be somewhere outside the country or coming from outside into the country.
MR. TURNER: To or from the United States, right?
MR. TURNER: If he flies from one foreign country to the other, you don't see that in your records?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do not see that, no.
MR. TURNER: You were asked on cross about someone named Mark Karpeles repeatedly, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I was.
MR. TURNER: And one of the questions you were asked concerned software called MediaWiki, do you remember that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do.
MR. TURNER: You testified that there was a website you thought was associated with Mark Karpeles --
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: -- that used MediaWiki software?
THE COURT: Hold on. Let me just read this. Hold on.
(Pause)
THE COURT: I will allow it.
MR. TURNER: Right?
MR. TURNER: And what is MediaWiki software?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's an open source. It is a free program that you could download from the Internet.
MR. TURNER: What is it used for?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's used to create Wiki pages.
MR. TURNER: FAQ pages, right?
MR. DRATEL: Objection to leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
Why don't you ask it differently.
MR. TURNER: What do you mean, Wiki pages?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: So information pages, so it could be used to provide information.
MR. TURNER: It is a tool for building pages --
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Leading.
MR. TURNER: -- on websites?
THE COURT: I will allow it, just to sort of cut through this.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it is.
MR. TURNER: Go ahead.
MR. TURNER: And when you say "freely available," what do you mean?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That means that anyone on the Internet can download it.
MR. TURNER: Anyone on the Internet can download it for free, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, without paying for it.
MR. TURNER: Just like are there browser software programs that you can download from the Internet for free?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, there are.
MR. TURNER: And sometimes those programs change from time to time, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes. There is different versions, updated versions.
MR. TURNER: So some people can download one version and then it can change and some people can download the next version?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: I will allow it.
MR. TURNER: So you noticed that the same MediaWiki software was running on -- was used to create Silk Road's FAQ page, is that right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes. The same version of MediaWiki was used on the Silk Road --
MR. TURNER: Do you have any idea how many thousands or tens of thousands websites --
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: -- had FAQ pages still using the same --
MR. DRATEL: Objection to the form.
THE COURT: I will allow it.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do not know.
MR. TURNER: I think you testified about Simple Machines software?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I did.
MR. TURNER: And what is that software used for?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It is to create online forums.
MR. TURNER: Like a discussion forum, right?
MR. TURNER: Is that freely available software?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it is.
MR. TURNER: Can anybody download it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Anyone can download it for free.
MR. TURNER: And use it to create a forum on whatever website they want?
MR. TURNER: You testified about PHP and MySQL, is that right?
MR. TURNER: What are those programs used for?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's just a free program that you could download that is a language that helps you build and create websites.
MR. TURNER: Do you have any idea how many thousands or millions of websites use PHP or MySQL?
MR. DRATEL: Objection to form.
THE COURT: Why don't you ask a different --
MR. TURNER: Do you have any idea how many websites in the world use PHP or MySQL?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I don't but I know it is popular.
MR. TURNER: You testified on cross that there was a time when you were looking at whether Mark Karpeles might be involved in operating Silk Road, correct?
MR. TURNER: And in terms of what initially led you to look at Mark Karpeles, you testified it was something about the silkroadmarket.org website, is that right?
MR. TURNER: Remind the jury, what is the silkroadmarket.org website?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was a website that was on the regular Internet that if you were to search Silk Road on a regular Internet browser, you would potentially find this website first, since it wasn't on Tor, and it would redirect you, give you directions step-by-step on how to access the Silk Road marketplace on Tor.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, may I approach?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. TURNER: I'm showing you what's been marked as Government Exhibit 149.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this exhibit?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do.
MR. TURNER: What is it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's a screenshot from archive.org of a Silk Road market page.
MR. TURNER: Silkroadmarket.org?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Silkroadmarket.org page --
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 149 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Vayner.
THE COURT: You need to lay a foundation for this witness for this document.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, we have -- if I can, I will authenticate it under 902 with a declaration from archive.org, and we won't have to have a sidebar. We have already discussed archive.org, and it came through the cross as a tool that can archive reliably websites over time.
THE COURT: I need to take a look at that testimony to remind myself of that. I am going to allow the document for the moment, subject to connection.
MR. TURNER: Thank you.
THE COURT: And then, ladies and gentlemen, I will let you know if there is a issue and we need to strike it.
But you can proceed.
(Government's Exhibit 149 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: So could we publish Government Exhibit 149?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. TURNER: Thank you.
Can you zoom in?
MR. TURNER: All right. So was this all there was to the website?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This was all there was.
MR. TURNER: And it just told you how to get to the actual Silk Road website on Tor, right?
MR. TURNER: It wasn't the actual Silk Road website at all?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, it was not.
MR. TURNER: It wasn't on Tor?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was not on Tor.
MR. TURNER: It was just on the ordinary Internet?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was a regular website, yes.
MR. TURNER: And because it was on the ordinary Internet, you were able to look up its true IP address on who.is like you told us about before, right?
MR. TURNER: May I approach again, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. TURNER: I show you what's been marked as Government Exhibit 150.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this Web page?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: Where is it from?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's who.is -- a screenshot of who.is searching silkroadmarket.org.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Government Exhibit 150 into evidence under 803(17).
MR. DRATEL: Objection, your Honor, Vayner.
THE COURT: All right. I need to take a look at it.
(Pause)
THE COURT: I will allow it. Government Exhibit 150 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 150 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Can you publish Government Exhibit 150, Mr. Evert? Could you zoom in here. Zoom in just on that half, please.
MR. TURNER: OK. So you looked up silkroadmarket.org on who.is, right?
MR. TURNER: And you found it was controlled -- it was on a server that was going to --
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, I'm trying to get done before 5.
THE COURT: Even though you are trying to get done, we may have to have him back anyway, so take your time.
MR. TURNER: OK.
MR. TURNER: So where did you find the IP address resolve back to?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It came back to a server that was under XTA, an XTA server.
MR. TURNER: You testified on cross that you found that xta.net was registered to Mark Karpeles, right?
MR. TURNER: You found that based on publicly available information?
MR. TURNER: So you decided to look for Mark Karpeles, is that right?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, this has already come in through cross.
MR. DRATEL: I know, but the leading parts --
THE COURT: Try not to lead. I will allow it. Try not to lead. Take your time.
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: So you decided to look for Mark Karpeles, is that correct?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: You wanted to see if there was anything further --
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: -- in this connection?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. DRATEL: Objection as to the --
THE COURT: I'm sustaining it.
MR. DRATEL: OK.
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: You testified on cross you got a search warrant on Mr. Karpeles' email, is that right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: And you searched through all those emails?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: When did you finish looking into those emails, by the way?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It took me awhile, a few weeks, a month maybe.
MR. TURNER: What time of year? When did you --
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's hard to say.
MR. TURNER: Was it in 2014?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Because I think by the time we got it later on, it probably ended early 2014.
MR. TURNER: OK. So this was after Mr. Ulbricht's arrest you finished looking up through all those emails, is that correct?
MR. TURNER: And when you looked through all those emails, what kind of company did you learn that Mr. Karpeles ran?
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Foundation.
THE COURT: Well --
MR. DRATEL: Hearsay.
THE COURT: Hold on. I get the drift.
Sustained. We are going to have to come at it a different way, based on what we did earlier. Gander/goose. What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
MR. TURNER: What sort of email did you see? What were the emails about?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: I will allow there to be a topical description, but it is not for the truth. It's just for the topics.
You may proceed.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Generally, I mean, it was about his hosting services that he had, so the majority of the emails that were coming through revolved around that as well as his bitcoin business.
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, this all came in during cross.
MR. TURNER: You testified on cross he hosted websites, is that right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, he did.
MR. TURNER: OK. So what was his Web hosting company called, by the way?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: KalyHost.
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Foundation.
THE COURT: I will allow it.
MR. TURNER: K-a-l-y-h-o-s-t?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: H-o-s-t.
MR. TURNER: Did it go by any other names that you saw in emails?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, if he did and didn't confirm it, then it wouldn't be in for the truth, it is just for what he saw in the email, and the email may have had certain words, and I will allow is for that purpose.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: AutoVPS I believe was the name of the other company.
MR. TURNER: Remind the jury what a Web hosting company does.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Web hosting is a company that you could go to to host websites.
MR. TURNER: Right.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: So you could buy services from them.
MR. TURNER: And does that involve renting server space from the companies?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That does include that.
MR. TURNER: So if you -- you said earlier that you looked up Mr. Karpeles and there were many, many servers registered to him, many IP addresses registered to him, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That's correct.
MR. TURNER: If you own a car rental company, do you own a lot of cars?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: You own a lot of cars, yes.
MR. TURNER: What do you do with those cars? You rent them out to?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Other people.
MR. TURNER: Right. Do you control where those other people drive with the cars?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: With a Web hosting company, when the Web hosting company rents out its servers to other people, does the Web hosting company control what the customers put on their websites?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, they do not.
THE COURT: We are going to end in just about two minutes on the dot.
MR. TURNER: I think I can almost get through, your Honor. I think I can get through.
THE COURT: But don't rush it in terms of I'm not sure that this witness -- I don't know whether this witness will be on or off the stand, so I just want to make sure that you don't proceed on that assumption.
Go ahead.
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: All right. Now, when a customer of a Web hosting company sets up a website, is there any type of information the customer has to provide in order to register the website?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained unless you can build a foundation for that.
MR. TURNER: Do you know?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Just what I have observed through looking through Mark Karpeles' emails.
MR. DRATEL: Objection, your Honor.
MR. TURNER: Let's back out of this area of the document here, please, Mr. Evert.
You testified before that you are familiar with the who.is database, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I am.
MR. TURNER: Is this database relied on regularly by people to figure out who websites are registered to?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
MR. TURNER: I am building a foundation, your Honor.
THE COURT: I know but not to "everybody." You can ask him if he relies upon it.
MR. TURNER: Sure.
MR. TURNER: If a person -- well, excuse me.
Do you rely upon who.is in order to determine who a website is registered to?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There is information you could use off of that, yes.
MR. TURNER: It is a publicly available database that is available for that purpose?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it is.
THE COURT: All right. We are going to end here, Mr. Turner.
MR. TURNER: OK.
THE COURT: I know that you have made a valiant effort to get through it. But you are going to have to come back another day.
All right. Ladies and gentlemen, I want to thank you for your patience with us today. And I want to remind you not to talk to each other or anybody else about this case, and to avoid any mentions of this case that you may see in any news reports or media reports of any kind. And we'll see you tomorrow morning.
We'll start at 9:30, I hope, right on time. Thank you very much. Good night.
COURT CLERK: All rise as the jury leaves.
(Continued on next page)
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: Why don't you go ahead and step down, sir.
Let's all be seated here.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: Not knowing what there will be on these topics for any recross, which I am considering in light of all the back and forth we have, we have had a lot of evidentiary objections -- for instance, if there were recross, I would not necessarily cut it off. I didn't want to have you end with this witness and then have pressure whether or not to bring him back. I wanted to for this particular witness, given the difficulty we have had with everything today, to proceed and let it unfold as it needs to unfold.
Mr. Dratel, Mr. Turner had suggested earlier that he is about to end with this witness. I have one, two, three, four, five, six topics I think he has covered. That doesn't mean that you have to cover all of them, but at this point are you thinking of any recross?
MR. DRATEL: Yes, your Honor.
THE COURT: Approximately how long do you think you will take on one or more of those topics?
MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, let me just look through my notes.
THE COURT: Yes.
(Pause)
MR. DRATEL: I would think right now we're about 15 minutes.
THE COURT: All right. Terrific. So we ought to then plan on, if all goes well in the morning we'll be moving on to our next witness, which will, I'm sure, some relief to us all.
In terms of tomorrow's examination, is there anything that people expect to come up that we ought to be thinking about right now versus having to deal with it tomorrow? We now know the nature of, generally speaking, where folks are getting exorcised and not.
MR. TURNER: With respect to this witness or the next, your Honor?
THE COURT: No. Right now I am just dealing with this witness. I just want to see whether there is something that we know of that is going to come up, for instance, that's going to be getting into areas that we'll need to address. Because, if so, I want to have a chance to think about them and you folks as well.
MR. TURNER: To the extent the defense wants to revisit the issues that we went over today in terms of getting back to the agent's beliefs about --
THE COURT: I will let him preview that.
MR. TURNER: -- on redirect --
THE COURT: There is nothing else that you are going to be doing on your redirect that you expect will raise particular issues?
MR. TURNER: Not that I can think of right now.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Dratel, are there things which you expect will raise particular issues?
MR. DRATEL: On this witness?
THE COURT: On this witness right now for tomorrow morning.
MR. DRATEL: Not directly related to the redirect.
THE COURT: All right. OK. If anybody has any cases on the statement relating to the complaint, I'm not finding anything that's jumping out at me, but I don't have time to look at it closely right now. Give it to me the first thing in the morning and I'll read it.
I also have gotten and you folks could presumably get a copy of the sealed portion of the transcript. If you want to get a copy of it and look at it and tell me whether there is anything that comes out of it that you think we need to talk about tomorrow morning, we will do that at 9 as well.
Is there anything else, folks? No?
MR. TURNER: Nothing here.
MR. DRATEL: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. I will see you folks tomorrow morning. We are adjourned.
COURT CLERK: All rise.
(Adjourned to 9 a.m., Wednesday, January 21, 2015)