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2015 Federal TrialtranscripttranscriptAntonopoulus Preclusion, Mistrial Motion, Jones Stipulation, and Supplemental Charge Requests - Day 10 - 2015 Federal TrialThe court denied the defense’s mistrial request and maintained the exclusion of Mr. Antonopoulus’s proposed expert testimony.
Timothy HowardSerrin A. TurnerJoshua Lewis DratelLindsay LewisKatherine B. ForrestCourt ClerkMR. TURNERTHE COURTMR. DRATELMS. LEWISMR. HOWARDprocedural
2015 Federal Trial/Day 10/February 2, 2015
10 pages·4 witnesses·1,525 lines
Brian Shaw completed testimony on Silk Road records before the government rested and three defense character witnesses testified. The court kept disputed drug-weight estimates excluded and denied the defense's acquittal motion on all seven counts.
Antonopoulus Preclusion Upheld; Mistrial Motion Denied
ProceduralProc.Antonopoulus Preclusion Upheld; Mistrial Motion Denied

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK ------------------------------x UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

v. 14 Cr. 68 (KBF) ROSS WILLIAM ULBRICHT, Defendant. ------------------------------x New York, N.Y. February 2, 2015 9:10 a.m. Before: HON. KATHERINE B. FORREST, District Judge APPEARANCES PREET BHARARA, United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York BY: SERRIN A. TURNER TIMOTHY HOWARD

Assistant United States Attorneys JOSHUA LEWIS DRATEL LINDSAY LEWIS JOSHUA HOROWITZ Attorneys for Defendant - also present - Special Agent Vincent D'Agostino Molly Rosen, Government Paralegal Nicholas Evert, Government Paralegal

(In open court; jury not present)

COURT CLERK: Continuation of the trial of United States of America v. Ross William Ulbricht. Counsel, state your names for the record.

MR. TURNER: Good morning. Serrin Turner for the government, along with Timothy Howard, Agent D'Agostino, Nicholas Evert and Molly Rosen.

THE COURT: Good morning all of you.

MR. DRATEL: Good morning. Joshua Dratel with Mr. Ulbricht standing beside me, Lindsay Lewis from my office and Joshua Horowitz.

THE COURT: Good morning. We have seven jurors here and have not heard from any that they will not be here. Several asked whether or not we were going to hold court today and we indicated yes, and they should just try to get in as soon as possible. We have not heard any specific time as to delay. So I am hopeful that they'll be in without too much delay.

There is one pending application before the Court which was a letter that I received from the government relating to Defense Exhibit E. Before we go to that, let me find out what the entire agenda is. Are there additional matters which need to be raised?

MR. DRATEL: Yes, your Honor. With respect to the Court's opinion yesterday precluding the two proposed defense experts, I would just object to the time frame in which we were compelled to answer. I don't think it was reasonable or fair. I think Mr. Ulbricht's Sixth Amendment right to counsel and in turn his Fifth Amendment right to counsel -- I mean his Fifth Amendment right to due process were denied by that. There was no deadline set before the weekend. We had reached out to the government to ask for a schedule. We did not hear back from them. And in addition, there were -- we just did not get a confirmation.

Ms. Lewis talked with the government about Sunday and they were going to get back to us with a confirmation. They agreed to Sunday. I guess Ms. Lewis -- we didn't get to the Court the schedule. That was a miscommunication. I did not have any opportunity to contribute to the Antonopoulus letter and there are significant aspects of that issue that were not addressed in that letter because we did not have access to Mr. Antonopoulus during the period of time.

And we were able to speak to him yesterday after the Court had already issued its order and he would have been able to provide significant evidence rebutting material and testimony by Mr. Yum from last Thursday for which we had virtually no notice.

I just want to go through some of the issues that he would have been able to address. One is that the impact of a significant movement of bitcoin on the market, in other words, what the volatility, what the volume was in trading at certain periods of time and what the movement of the amount of bitcoins that Mr. Yum talked about and what that would have involved and what the movement of certain amounts of bitcoin would have involved on the market.

In fact, the FBI auction of the bitcoins that they seized from the laptop of Mr. Ulbricht was the largest single trade I think in the history of bitcoin, was the largest single transaction at that point.

Also with respect to the keys that Mr. Yum testified to about bitcoin keys on the wallet and on the laptop and addresses, Mr. Antonopoulus would have been able to testify that it does not indicate ownership, that there are three aspects of this process: One is access, one is control and one is ownership. Access, which is all having the key suggests is the weakest form of ownership or control. It doesn't have either. And then control is weaker and then there's ownership.

The keys on the laptop do not mean that someone owns or controls the bitcoins. It also does not mean it's exclusive. More than one person can have access through possession of the keys. He analogized this concept to storage lockers to having a pin number, where anyone with a pin number with the storage locker could go to the storage locker, could get access and also make deposits with a cash slot, that all that would mean was access.

Also with respect to the laptop, he would be able to opine that Mr. Yum's testimony and analysis would not be conclusive as to how these bitcoins got into the wallet on the laptop. Who else could have had access? And not even know that the keys that the person whose laptop it was might not even know that the keys were there or that the bitcoins were there, that there is knowledge of public addresses and people can deposit and get returns. He has set up accounts where people have put in money who he doesn't know. We had evidence here about the FBI -- even when the FBI took the bitcoins, the account continued to grow because people were putting money in. And there's a whole range of reasons why that occurs in the bitcoin market.

He also said that storing keys on a laptop is terrible security. It is not recommended. You should never have it on a laptop. It should never be on any computer connected to the Internet. And he assumes that everything connected to the Internet is compromised.

He also confirmed my cross-examination of Mr. Yum which is that a cold wallet is one that has never been online and is on a computer that's disabled to preclude Internet access; that once a wallet has been online, it is a hot wallet, which is something that Mr. Yum disputed me on and he was wrong. He would only use a hot wallet for a single transaction, which would be to withdraw bitcoins from a wallet. He would never use it for any other purpose. He also talked about the 700,000 number that the government had in Mr. Yum's testimony and report, that there is a chance for a significant double-counting because things can go from Silk Road to the wallet back to Silk Road back to the wallet and these round trips, which we establish have occurred in that -- in the time that now we've had to do this and talk to Mr.Ant no louse about it and others, that there's no indication that it's actually 700,000 bitcoins, that it could be many of the same bitcoins going back and forth.

There are a number of explanations that he would have had for that. One is that many merchants and customers on Silk Road in his experience as an expert used Silk Road as a hot wallet and as a result they have a running balance moving back and forth from Silk Road to their own wallet from Silk Road to their own wallet back and forth, deposits and withdrawals, deposits and withdrawals. He said a lot of merchants do that. And there's a lot of literature out there and posts and all of that. He said there are legal traders on Silk Road who do that often, people who trade T-shirts, coffee, key chains. He said, in fact, when the government froze the wallets, a lot of vendors with legitimate merchandise were out their money because the bitcoins were seized.

He also pointed out that Silk Road is not a one-to-one type of bitcoin wallet in the sense that if you were to put a bitcoin in the Silk Road wallet, you would not get that wallet -- you would not get that bitcoin back when you withdrew. It all goes to a single pot. Very much like cash at a bank or an ATM, if you put in five 20s in a deposit and then you withdraw, you don't get the same five 20s back. So that could also account for these transactions, double-counting, because you can't assume that it's not the same bitcoin going back and forth and back and forth.

Also, Silk Road, according to his experience, was used to trade currencies for bitcoin and as a primitive currency exchange and that bitcoin speculators would use Silk Road in and out as a means of speculation in bitcoin, and, of course, that is what the defense theory is with respect to what Mr. Ulbricht was doing at the time in terms of his business.

Also, he also said that in the early days because Silk Road was a primary or the primary vehicle for using bitcoin in commerce, that many ordinary bitcoin transactions or ordinary bitcoin issues were treated on Silk Road where they weren't available anywhere else, such as bitcoin mining and other wallet issues and all of that as far as merchandise and people using Silk Road in the context of bitcoin as a wallet and as a means of exchange.

Also, he pointed out how bitcoins are traded in the sense that -- not so much traded but how payment works for bitcoins and that bitcoins are -- and this has to do also with bitcoin mining and what's called block reward meaning if you mine bitcoin successfully, you get block reward. Let's say you have 50.135 bitcoins would be a block award, so that goes to the American who mined it. And if that person wanted to purchase something for one bitcoin, they don't take one bitcoin and pay; they have to pay with the entire block of bitcoin that they received, the 50.135 bitcoin. So then you have to spend all of it. And what that means is essentially not dissimilar to, let's say, if I wanted to buy a pack of gum for a dollar and all I had was a $20 bill, I would have to use the 20 to pay for the dollar.

The difference with the bitcoin situation is this: When you get change from a bitcoin, in other words, if you pay for a single bitcoin item with a 50-bitcoin piece, you're going to get 49 bitcoins back in change. The difference in the cash situation, and I'll try to analogize it further, which is that the bitcoind wallet, which was used on Silk Road, that was the system used on Silk Road, it automatically puts the change in a new wallet. So that if I were to analogize it again to cash is that if I were to pay for a pack of gum worth a dollar with a $20 bill, if I take the 20 from my right pocket, when I get the change of $19, I put it in my left pocket. It's a different wallet because of this bitcoind program. That can also lead to overcounting. And he pointed out that these blocks are indivisible, they are of arbitrary size and there are algorithms for sorting these bitcoin amounts for efficient means of payment. It's something that Mr. Yum only touched on very, very generally that is important in a more specific sense because it accounts for the numbers of wallets, it accounts for the fractionalized nature of the bitcoin that's in the wallets, and we believe that that is relevant, that is important to our case. We did not have sufficient notice to provide that before. Mr. Antonopoulus was on a plane Saturday returning from overseas. And the government knew he was away based on Ms. Lewis' conversation with them. We had told the government that we would be providing his opinions to them Sunday when he arrived back in the United States. Let me just review my notes for one moment.

So we're clear, I did not speak or otherwise communicate with Ms. Lewis Saturday until later in the evening, and based on the Court's ruling before we had a reasonable and sufficient opportunity to respond, I move for mistrial or for the remedy of giving us a chance to put Mr. Antonopoulus on the stand.

THE COURT: Well, the application is denied for the reasons substantially stated in my opinion. Still the Court has no idea what Mr. Antonopoulus' qualifications are and whether he is in fact qualified to present any of the opinions that you've suggested. The Court received simply a very bare bones CV, a generic reference to 200 articles with none of the articles listed or named. Many of the topics are those which would have naturally arisen based upon the opening statements of counsel and therefore should have been anticipated rendering much of the Antonopoulus proposed testimony as information which should have been anticipated, therefore disclosed, therefore the methodology disclosed.

The particular aspects which are responsive to Yum I think ignore the fact that Yum was responsive to your opening. In fact, it was the minimum kind of exercise one would have expected the government to have undertaken in response to that opening. It would have been I think deficient for someone not to have done that kind of exercise.

So for all of the reasons set forth in my opinion, the preclusion order as to Mr. Antonopoulus remains.

Ms. Lewis.

MS. LEWIS: I wanted to add, obviously since Mr. Antonopoulus was traveling, we also anticipated we would be able to get a more complete sense of specifically what his credentials were. I had an idea, but I wanted to confirm them before putting them in a letter to the Court; and that was also the purpose of speaking with him on Sunday. I had told the government that we were intending to speak with him at 3:15 that day when he returned and that I would let them know as soon as we did have that conversation what his positions were because, obviously, I would not want to misrepresent to them something, have them agree to it, and then have it be something else.

He was in Germany. He had almost limited to no access to Wi-Fi, so we were not able to get these things before, though we did endeavor to do so. We were in communication with him. It's in the 3500 material. You can see we were communicating with him to try to get this information and we have this call set.

I did want to add, though, that he has been qualified as an expert on bitcoin in Canadian court. Obviously this is not an issue that has been in American courts practically at all, but it has been there. He's also spoken, I believe, in Europe as an expert on this topic. And he has also written a leading book in this area, "Mastering Bitcoin," as well as a host of articles on this topic. He's a security expert. All of this would have been in a subsequent submission had I had the opportunity to speak with him as planned on Sunday.

THE COURT: Well, I think bitcoin issues here have been evident since this case was first charged, and the idea that you would not have located or disclosed Mr. Antonopoulus until when you did, let alone trying to get in touch with him the day before he's supposed to go on the stand potentially is a choice you folks made.

Does the government want to add anything to the record?

MR. HOWARD: To be clear on one thing: We did speak with Ms. Lewis on Friday evening. It was requested whether or not the government would agree to allow certain parts of Mr. Antonopoulus' testimony in so they won't have to be litigated. At that time we expressed we filed our motion to preclude and we were in no position to evaluate any kind of compromise given we had no idea what his opinion would be because the notes were so deficient.

We were told by Ms. Lewis that we would not receive any more detail before Sunday and we did confirm the fact that our position was that Mr. Antonopoulus' testimony should be excluded and it was up to them to oppose it if that was their choice.

MS. LEWIS: That's correct.

MR. TURNER: Could I add one brief point: All of the opinions that Mr. Dratel expressed, we would have objected to as irrelevant and improper if we had had proper notice. So I don't want the record to be left unclear that, in the government's view, we would have accepted the relevancy prior to his opinions.

THE COURT: That's the Antonopoulus issue. Is there anything else before we get to Defendant's Exhibit E?

THE COURT: All right.

ProceduralProc.Andrew Jones Statement: Stipulation Negotiations Directed

MR. DRATEL: As the Court is aware, the government's initial exhibit list and throughout the first half of the trial included Andrew Jones, who has pleaded guilty to his involvement in Silk Road as an administrator under the name of inigo. At some point midway through the trial, the government said they may not call him and then just last week conclusively told us that they would not call him.

When it initially became -- when I was initially informed that he would not be called by the government, I spoke with Mr. Turner about a specific piece of Brady material that the government provided. The government doesn't call it Brady because they don't call anything Brady.

Mr. Turner in a telephone conversation with me and Ms. Lewis said there is no Brady material in this case because he believes the defendant is guilty, so that's his view of Brady. So the notion that the government understands its Brady obligations is not reliable in this case.

So I asked him if he would stipulate to the piece that he knew we were interested in and he said yes, just a matter of language. Then I asked him again when he said that -- when they concluded they would not call Mr. Jones and he agreed again to stipulate. And then over the weekend yesterday I gave them the language of the stipulation which is only what is in their letter with the exception of one sentence which was removed; it's only what's in their letter. And I got back -- and then I spoke to Mr. Turner at 7:00 last night and he at first resisted unless I met one of his conditions on something completely unrelated that he would not stipulate unless I made met a condition that was completely unrelated. I agreed because this stipulation is that important to his condition. And then at 11:00, he writes me an email saying they're not stipulating.

THE COURT: Why don't you describe to me what the substance of the issue is.

THE COURT: Because it sounds like the alternative would be to call Mr. --

MR. DRATEL: Can't call him. He's going to take the Fifth Amendment. I spoke to his lawyer. He's unavailable. So I would move it, by the way, either as a statement against penal interest, 807, defense witness immunity. I'd ask for all those things. This is a case where if ever there was an appropriate case for it, this is it.

So on December 29, 2014, we received a letter from the government and on the second page of the letter it says that in a recent witness interview, Andrew Jones a/k/a inigo said the following, and this is the quote. This is not necessarily a quote from Mr. Jones but this is the government's characterization of what he said.

THE COURT: It's a 302?

MR. DRATEL: No. It's not a 302, but this is a letter from Mr. Turner, signed by Mr. Turner:

At some point in or about August or September 2013, Jones tried to authenticate that the Silk Road user "Dread Pirate Roberts" whom he was talking to at the time (via Pidgin chat) was the same person with whom he had been communicating in the past with this username. Previously in or about October 2012, Jones and "Dread Pirate Roberts" had agreed upon a "handshake" to use for authentication in which Jones would provide a certain prompt and "Dread Pirate Roberts" would provide a certain response. When during the 2013 chat in question Jones provided what he believed to be the designated prompt, "Dread Pirate Roberts" was unable to provide the response Jones thought they had agreed on; however, later in the chat, Jones asked "Dread Pirate Roberts" to validate himself by specifying the first job that "Dread Pirate Roberts" assigned to him (running the 'DPR book club') which "Dread Pirate Roberts" was able to do.

And then that's the block quote, and then the last paragraph is: The government is unaware of any extant record of the 2013 chat described by Jones. There is a record of an October 2012 chat between the defendant and Jones discussing a "handshake" in the file labeled MBSOBZVKHWX4HMJT on the defendant's computer, which has already been provided to the defense in discovery, and our stipulation would have included that specific chat, which is very short -- I think it's one page basically-- as part of the stipulation.

THE COURT: Mr. Turner, why has the government taken the position it has on the stipulation?

MR. TURNER: First of all, your Honor, I just want to be clear, I never said that we would stipulate. What I said is that we would consider stipulating. And what happened was this disclosure was made over a week and-a-half ago and the defendant did not get proposed language to the government until last night when the government was very, very busy with other things. The language that the defendant proposed for one thing omitted the very last sentence the defense counsel just read, which is, in the government's view, clearly important because the point is that inigo, Mr. Jones, tried a prompt that didn't work but then he tried another prompt that did.

THE COURT: Then you could add that in. That would be the product of a negotiation over the language of the stipulation.

MR. TURNER: The problem that I had is that, like I said, this came at the 11th hour.

THE COURT: Can you look at it this morning as we're proceeding?

MR. TURNER: I can, although it's not my job to draft appropriate language.

THE COURT: No. Mr. Dratel, it sounds like, has done that job. He's drafted language. Why don't you take a look at it and see whether or not there are additions that you could make to it or changes you could suggest that would then make it acceptable to the government.

Only at that point when I've got the two of you having truly joined issue do I want to have to then make a ruling. If you folks are able to agree, then that's obviously the best course.

Will you do that?

MR. TURNER: We will. To make it clear --

THE COURT: I understand you don't want to.

MR. TURNER: No, I just think just quoting what we put in a letter does not provide necessarily sufficient context by itself.

THE COURT: Go back and figure out what the context is that's fair. You folks then negotiate over this. We still have the government's witness on direct and I think Mr. Howard said he's got an hour or two left with that. Then there's cross. So you have some time while you're sitting there maybe to take a look at this.

Mr. Dratel, do you have it in a form written or otherwise that he could look at and fiddle with?

MR. DRATEL: I sent him the stip. I have it here.

THE COURT: In paper copy.

MR. DRATEL: I can give it to him. I can give him my copy. I know what it says. And so we're clear, Mr. Turner's response to me last night was he couldn't consider alternative language and it was too late to do so and he never made a plan or proposal. The reason I took that sentence out -- so we know where we're going, the reason I took that sentence out is because they could have called him to get that. It's a confrontation issue with respect to that. There is a confrontation issue. If there's a completeness issue, that's a different issue, but they never came back with a single sentence that's not in there. Everything else is from the government's letter. This has never been a mystery. We're talking about preparation time. This has never been a mystery as to what we want to do.

THE COURT: I hear your position. So I'm going to ask the government to look at that and see if there are additions or changes which would make it acceptable.

If the answer is after further considering the matter there are not, then we will deal with it in that posture. But if there are further changes or modifications that would make it acceptable, I'd like to know that.

Are there any other matters, Mr. Dratel?

ProceduralProc.Supplemental Defense Charge Requests and Witness Availability

MR. DRATEL: I prepared some supplemental requests to charge, they're very short, based on evidentiary issues. If I have a representation from the government that this is the government's last witness, I'll be happy to share them now.

THE COURT: Is this the last --

MR. DRATEL: It's not going to result in something coming into evidence that was not already --

THE COURT: Is Mr. Shaw the last witness?

MR. TURNER: Yes, your Honor.

THE COURT: Mr. Dratel, you can proceed.

MR. DRATEL: Thank you, your Honor. I'll give the government a copy here and I'll hand one up to the Court. First, one, that law enforcement officers cannot qualify as coconspirators.

The second is that even if you conclude beyond a reasonable doubt that Mr. Ulbricht was involved in the sale of mushrooms on the Silk Road site or otherwise in 2011, that alone would not be sufficient to establish his guilt -- it says "guilty," a typo -- on Counts One, Two or Four or his participation in any of the conspiracies charged in Counts Three and Seven, and the reason for that is venue.

This is number three, the undercover purchases by Homeland Security Investigations in Chicago and any seizures made by Homeland Security Investigations in Chicago are not by themselves sufficient to find Mr. Ulbricht guilty on any count, again because of venue.

Number four, even if you find that Mr. Ulbricht ordered fake identification documents, that is not evidence you can consider with respect to Count Six. One is venue and the second is it's not what's charged. It's not charged conspiracy, even if it is a conspiracy.

Supplemental defense instruction number five would be in order to find Mr. Ulbricht guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, there must be evidence beyond the uncorroborated admission of the accused. It is necessary for the government to introduce substantial independent evidence which would tend to establish the trustiworthiness of any such statement sufficient. It is sufficient if the corroboration supports the essential facts admitted sufficiently to justify an inference of their truth. Any independent facts plus the other evidence besides the admission must, of course, be sufficient to find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. And the reason for that last instruction is rather arcane and archaic but still the viable principle of corpus delicti, which is that the uncorroborated admission or confession of an accused is not sufficient evidence and there must be some independent corroboration.

In the context of what I assume the government will be arguing with respect to journals is that Mr. Ulbricht acknowledged his participation in the defense even as early as 2011, even if we don't contest some of that.

THE COURT: I see that you have some case cites here. I'm going to have my clerks pull the cases. I'll hand this to them. Let's take this up at the break or at the lunch and we'll see how we're progressing through the witness so that the government can determine what its response is to any of the particular requests.

MR. DRATEL: Okay. The only other charge, if obviously this stipulation issue doesn't work out or that is not admitted the Jones statement is not admitted in some form, then I would ask for a missing witness charge because he is completely within the government's control. He has pled guilty months ago. The only reason he has a Fifth Amendment privilege is because he has not been sentenced yet and it is completely within the government's control pursuant to the provisions of the cooperation agreement.

THE COURT: We'll have the government respond to that when they respond to the stipulation. It may or may not be necessary if the government and the defense are able to agree on language in the stipulation.

Are there any other matters which we need to raise before we go to Defense Exhibit E?

MR. TURNER: Your Honor, the government would like clarification on what the witness list of the defense is at this point, the experts have now been precluded. The defense last week indicated they were having trouble arranging arrangements for their character witnesses, so we'd like some sense of where we're headed for the rest of the day and who we need to prepare for.

THE COURT: We'll have Ms. Lewis give us the list of who you expect to call.

MS. LEWIS: The first witness will be Karen Steib Arnold, she's a character witness; followed by Thomas Haney, the same, also character witness; and then Daniel Davis, who is also a character witness.

MR. DRATEL: We have one who could not make it today because of travel. His plane was canceled.

MS. LEWIS: He's arriving this evening. There's also another witness that could only arrive today and wasn't able to get here earlier. Obviously, we thought we would have a number of other witnesses here. And then we also have another witness, Bridget Prince, who is on-hand, but we do hope to be able to get these other people.

THE COURT: There's a possibility if some of the others get here or if the testimony of Mr. Shaw goes long enough that it would be tomorrow morning, it would be two or three others?

MS. LEWIS: Yes, your Honor. That's correct.

THE COURT: Of a similar nature?

MS. LEWIS: There may actually be fact witnesses instead -- one fact witness.

THE COURT: Who would that be?

MS. LEWIS: Alden Schiller and Chris Kincade.

THE COURT: And what's their timing?

MS. LEWIS: They're both arriving by this evening and I believe both will be fairly short witnesses and we'll be able to go on first thing tomorrow if we need them to be here.

THE COURT: Let's see where we are today, but if they're going to be available first thing in the morning and they're fact witnesses, then tell them to continue to keep their flight plans in place and to try to get here just as soon as they can.

MS. LEWIS: We have. Obviously with the weather it's possible things could be delayed further, but as far as I know, they'll both be here tonight and are planning to come and testify tomorrow.

MR. DRATEL: Mr. Schiller was actually supposed to arrive yesterday. His flight was canceled.

THE COURT: The record should reflect --

MR. DRATEL: I'm sorry, that's not correct.

THE COURT: There have been about six- to eight inches of snow overnight which now has turned to rain, which makes us able to be here but has caused some difficulties with travel I'm sure. It certainly has caused difficulties with folks getting in just from Manhattan. That's that.

Is there anything else we need to raise before we go to Defense Exhibit E?

MR. TURNER: No, your Honor.

MR. DRATEL: No, your Honor.

Continue to next page2.Defense Exhibit E Excluded: Hearsay and Alternative-Perpetrator Evidence