3.Gary Luis Alford — Direct/Cross (Part 2)
653 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION CONTINUED BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: Agent Alford, when we last left off, we were going through documents from the defendant's laptop and you were explaining some of the links you found with evidence in the defendant's Gmail account. Do you remember that?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I do, Facebook account.
MR. TURNER: Facebook account. And we left off with an April 2012 entry in the SR accounting spreadsheet for a laptop that you saw corresponding receipt for in the defendant's Gmail account. Do you remember that?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Let me keep going chronologically through that evidence with you and look at Government Exhibit 226E, which has already been admitted into evidence. Pull up the first part of the chat.
Here we're at pages 507-08 of the chat log with vj and it's dated March 9, 2012. It starts out:
"Myself: I've been researching offshore stuff
Myself: well, I think I have my citizenship/banking/living plan worked out, but I am feeling around for advisors to make sure I'm not missing anything
Vj: Make sure your plan includes at least two backup locales
Myself: ok, don't have that but will work it in."
Can you go down to the next part. March 26, 2012:
"Vj: One of the things I've learned in the last 10 days, how to run several offshore corps/trusts, and safely transfer funds tween them.
Vj: It's as simple as going to the cayman islands, taking out a cashiers cheque, or cash, and walking it down the street, and depositing it in a trust account.
Myself: great. My top priority right now is getting a new citizenship.
Myself: you aren't looking into that much are you?
Vj: interbank transfers always leave some trace.
Vj: Dominican Republic, 24 months, 10 grand gets you a citizenship. Bahamas, 4 months, 280grand.
Myself: dominica 60k 2 months or so
Myself: didn't know about the bahamas, will look into that.
Vj: Dominca kinda worries me, from what I've seen of the process, I'm not sure it's all kosher."
Next page.
"vj: But remember, you can never have too many passports.
Myself: yea, but I need to get rid of one first if you know what I mean. THen the more the merrier"
Keep going.
"Myself: the citizenship I am applying for requires a personal financial audit going back years
Vj: Look for other ones as well. You can never have too many passports.
Myself: I will for sure. it's my new hobby." Emoticon.
"Myself: but this is the fastest one I can get."
May 3, 2012 it starts out "myself: sorry, I got distracted reading about what a terrible idea it is to renounce my citizenship.
Vj: one word - taxes
Vj: Is there a terrible downside to renouncing your citizenship?
Vj: can't be president
Vj: can't be vice-president
Vj: erm... anything else?
Myself: it is much harder to get back in the country and you can't stay as long
Myself: I grew up here, I have an emotional attachment
Myself: my family is here
Vj: I used to feel that way. Now, I fly my family to a nice place twice a year to meet.
Myself: wah wah boo hoo
Vj: they much prefer that to me visiting
Vj: naw, it's a valid point.
Vj: Having money eases the transition greatly
Myself: I'm sure it'll be fine. Have you looked at the few tax havens in the world?
Myself: where you can live permanently w/o income tax
Myself: monte carlo, andorra
Vj: Yeah, my clever plan is to travel all the time, be vague about permanent residence.
Myself: could get tiresome
Vj: and pick up some land in interesting places.
Myself: it brings up tough questions
Myself: like if I want kids
Vj: But being DPR and having a family are mutually exclusive, at least for a few years.
Myself: I'm ok with that
Vj: That said, rich playboy types can have a lot of fun.
Myself: im ok with that too, but I do want a family someday.
Vj: That's where careful creation and nurturing of a public personae, business, etc., becomes so important.
Vj: So you can slip into it seamlessly when you want.
Myself: I'm not complaining about any of this, great fucking problem to have.
Vj: heh, it is, isn't it!
Vj: also, we can buy citizenships/work/living visa's, etc., no problem
Vj: cause it never hurts to have an extra country to live in.
Vj: I plan on collecting passports like Pokemon's. Gotta get 'em all!
Myself: well, that's what I'm getting into atm. I need a different passport when I renounce
Myself: you could really screw yourself if you didn't line something up. oops, renounced my citizenship, now I'm stuck here."
MR. TURNER: In the defendant's Gmail account, did you find any evidence about seeking foreign citizenship?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: What did you find?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I found emails from the defendant to various friends asking for, how do you say, when someone says -- like a reference for citizenship.
MR. TURNER: And where specifically? Citizenship where?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Dominica.
MR. TURNER: Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 316.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, could you pop up that last page of the chat?
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize Government Exhibit 316?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you zoom in on the last.
MR. TURNER: All right. So what's Government Exhibit 316?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is three emails: One from Ross Ulbricht to an individual named Alden on May 1 2012; there's a second email from the defendant to an individual named Mirza also on May 1, 2012; and there's a third email on that same date from the defendant to an individual named Rene.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, the government offers 316 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Just the same objection.
THE COURT: All right. Those objections are overruled. Government Exhibit 316 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 316 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: The date of the email is May 1, 2012. How does that compare to the last chat we saw up on the screen?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It's within two days.
MR. TURNER: And subject is "reference letter." It says "Hey Alden, Ever do a patent search on that dog collar idea? Could be a winner! I'm applying for a second citizenship to an island nation in the caribbean called Dominica and they need a few non-family character references. There are few people that have known me as long as you have. Would you be willing to one of them for me? All you would need to do is write a half page testifying to my outstanding character, should be easy." Emoticon. "You may wonder why I am doing this crazy thing. Well, it's part of a plan of mine to diversify myself internationally. There are opportunites available to people with non-us citizenship, such as ETF trading, and there could also be substantial tax advantages in the future. It's also a bit of a political hedge if things ever get dicey here in the US."
MR. TURNER: Are the other two letters in this email, collection of emails -- excuse me -- are the other two emails in this exhibit of a similar nature?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: And they're from the same date?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Okay. Let me go on to Government Exhibit 251. The jury has already seen this exhibit. It's a spreadsheet from the defendant's computer entitled "networth calculator."
MR. TURNER: And can you zoom in on the first column, Mr. Evert. So the entries in the spreadsheet, go down to June 2012.
MR. TURNER: Do you see that?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Back out. Could you zoom in on this area here.
MR. TURNER: So under hard assets, there's SR Inc. listed as $104 million in value and then there's a Samsung 700Z laptop listed for $800. Earlier we saw a laptop purchased for $1,150 in April?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: There may have been some depreciation value?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: So looking at the right-hand column, under liquid assets inventory, there's an entry for USAA $1,400. In the course of your investigation, did you obtain any records from USAA?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: And from whom -- for whom -- who are they for?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The defendant.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at Government Exhibit I think it's 806.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I had a spreadsheet in this book.
MR. TURNER: 806, do you have 806 in your book?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: Okay. Do you recognize that document?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It's a bank statement from USAA Federal Savings Bank which was subpoenaed through the investigation.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 806 into evidence. We have a stipulation we can read in, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. TURNER: We can read in the stipulations at the end of the testimony, if that's okay.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. TURNER: Apologies for that. The government offers 806 into evidence.
THE COURT: Mr. Dratel.
MR. DRATEL: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Subject to stipulation.
THE COURT: Okay. Subject to the stipulation, Government Exhibit 806 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 806 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Now, we saw the last entry for the spreadsheet was in June 2012. And what was the balance in the defendant's USAA account as of June 2012? Mr. Evert, can you blow that up?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is $1,347.24.
MR. TURNER: How does that compare to the entry in the spreadsheet?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It's within $60 of that entry.
MR. TURNER: There's also a line in here for PayPal, $50. Did you obtain any PayPal records in the course of your investigation?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I obtained PayPal records relative to the defendant.
MR. TURNER: Can you take a look at Exhibit 808.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I have it.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this document?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: What is it?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is the document from PayPal relative to the transactions of the defendant.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, we have a stipulation on this and we can read it in after the defendant's (sic) testimony.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. TURNER: So the government offers 808 into evidence. Excuse me, it's the witness' testimony.
THE COURT: Any objection?
MR. DRATEL: No.
THE COURT: Government Exhibit 808 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 808 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: So what do the records from PayPal show was the balance in the account? And look up here so we can see what these columns are. Over here, can you zoom in. From the side, there's a date in this column and then zoom out, please, and then over here, and then there's a balance remaining after the transaction in each column in each row?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: So, could we go down to the bottom, please, the bottom two. Zoom in here first. That's good.
June 7, 2012, there's a transaction involving a checkout payment system, and then if you go to the other side in the balance column, second from the right, what was the balance as of June 7, 2012 in the account?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: $46.89.
MR. TURNER: How does that compare to the entry in the spreadsheet?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It's within $4 of the entry on the spreadsheet.
MR. TURNER: Let me now move to September 2012. Put up Government Exhibit 227F on the screen. Blow this up, please. This is page 63 of a 337-page chat with Cimon, and it's from 9/26/2012.
"Cimon: Hey, it's 0700 here, and here I am!!!
OK, it's 715
Yeah, it's 0730, and we must have got our wires crossed. I'm going to go grab some breakfast, back in a bit
Gotta assume ya' forgot our meet, I'm gonna go for my morning walk, will check back later back, will be here for another 2 hours or so, then I have a local meeting for lunch. It's noon, and I'm off for a lunch meeting, will check back later in the day."
Then it says "Myself: hey, sorry about that. I changed timezones today and I think I got confused last night with my flight schedule
Myself: it's actually getting late here, so I'll go to sleep soon. I should be around during your morning tomorrow, but the next 2-3 days after I'll be fairly busy. If you don't find me on here but have something to say, feel free to message me on Silk Road, or the dev forum
Myself: had a good chat with smed, don't worry about getting me up to speed on the current state of things. He says he'll have a demo of the exchange deployed on tuesday, so let's all touch base then. I'll be posting a couple of things on the dev forums tomorrow that you should look at when you get a chance as well."
MR. TURNER: All right. So the chat -- in the chat "myself" says "I changed timezones today."
Did you see any records in the defendant's Gmail account from this date indicating that the defendant was traveling?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: What did you see?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I saw an email regarding flight records.
MR. TURNER: Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 320.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I had a spreadsheet in this book that's not here today.
MR. TURNER: Okay. We won't use it for now, but do you see 320 in front of you?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: And do you recognize it? What is it?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It's an email from priceline.com to the defendant about flights.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 320 into evidence, your Honor.
MR. DRATEL: One moment, your Honor, please. Vayner and hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Those objections are overruled.
Government Exhibit 320 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 320 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: First, let's focus on the header information. The date is 9/3/2012 from priceline.com to rossulbricht@gmail.com, itinerary for Austin, Texas, September 26, 2012.
Can you take a scroll down to the flights. What are the flights here?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Okay. There's a departing flight and it's from San Francisco to Austin, Texas.
MR. TURNER: On what date?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It's leaving on Wednesday, September 26, 2012.
MR. TURNER: And are you aware whether San Francisco is in a different timezone from Austin, Texas?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, it is. It's in the Pacific Standard Time and Austin is in I believe the Central Standard Time.
MR. TURNER: Okay. Let me move on to November 2012. Could you pull up 227G, please.
MR. TURNER: Can you scroll up a little bit.
MR. TURNER: This is page 157 of a 337-page chat with Cimon. It starts out November 15, 2012, "Myself: just got this
Myself: I'm not sure if tormail is not receiving emails atm, but funds are coming in.
I was able to exploit a vulnerability in one of the pages on silk road in a way that will cause a DOS attack and SQLi attack.
Send 5k to..." then there's a long string "if you are satisfied with WHAT I am doing. Send 15k to the same address to know HOW I am doing it.
-JE
Myself: had to swollow my pride there
Cimon: I know, but fuck it, let's keep our eye on the ball, and the ball is keeping the site open
Cimon: heh, yer still way richer than he!" Emoticon.
"Myself: can't wait to put this behind me."
Can we go back to GX 250, please. Could we go to page seven, middle of the page, the SR accounting spreadsheet the jury has seen earlier, and there's an entry here, 11/18/2012, "pay off hacker."
See that?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Go back to 227G, please. I'm sorry. 227G. You can get rid of the top panel. Okay. "Myself: can't wait to put this behind me
Cimon: Has this fucked up your travel plans
Cimon: And have you slept recently
Myself: just stressed me out
Myself: I am rested
Myself: and I am done travelling
Myself: for a little while anyway."
MR. TURNER: Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 321. Do you recognize this exhibit?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: What is it?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is an email from Delta Airlines to the defendant on November 13, 2012 regarding a flight itinerary.
MR. TURNER: And whose flight itinerary?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The defendant.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 321 into evidence, your Honor.
MR. DRATEL: Vayner and hearsay.
THE COURT: All right. The objections are overruled. GX 321 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 321 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Can you zoom in on the header again. From Delta Airlines to Ross Ulbricht subject, "It's time to check-in." The date is 11/13/2012.
And then could you zoom in to the last half of the message, just the first three trips there.
MR. TURNER: So what are the flights indicated in the message?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: There's a trip one and it is departing on Wednesday, November 14, 2012, it's departing San Francisco, California and it's arriving at Atlanta, Georgia.
There's a second leg, which leaves on that same day, which departs 7:37 p.m. from Atlanta, Georgia to San Juan.
And then there's a third leg on the next day, Thursday, November 15, which departs San Juan and arrives in Dominica.
And then there's a second trip, which is dated for Tuesday, December 4th, which departs Dominica and arrives in San Juan. The day after on Wednesday December 5, it departs -- the flight departs from San Juan and arrives in Atlanta, Georgia. And on that same day, another leg from Atlanta, Georgia, to San Francisco, California.
MR. TURNER: So let me go on to February 2013, can we take a look at what's marked in your binder as 227I.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this exhibit?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: 227I? Yes.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: 227I is a Tor chat.
MR. TURNER: Is this one of the Tor chats you reviewed from the defendant's computer?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 227I into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Vayner and hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: 227I is received.
(Government's Exhibit 227I received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Can you publish that, Mr. Evert. This is page 308-10 of a 337-page chat log with Cimon dated February 5, 2013, and it starts off "Cimon: I will tell you I've been boning up on both Tor and bitcoind source code and I've had the Tor thing figured for a while, just the bootstrapping step I'm having problems with and I'll be back home on Friday to work with smed, he's further along on quite a few things than it appears, eh.
Myself: Okay. I'll be away sat/sun, so maybe we can catch up next Monday.
Cimon: Take care.
Myself: You too."
February 10.
"Cimon: Hey, how was your weekend.
Myself: One of the best I've had in a while. How was yours."
You looked to see in the defendant's Facebook account any records from around this time period?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: And what did you find?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I found a Facebook status update which corresponds with this time frame.
MR. TURNER: Did you find any Facebook messages as well?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 331. What are you looking at there?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is records from the defendant's Facebook account and it is messages to and from the defendant.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 331 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: The same objection.
THE COURT: All right. That objection is overruled. Government Exhibit 331 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 331 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Can you zoom into here.
MR. TURNER: And the date of this message is February 8, 2013?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. TURNER: And could you explain what the messages say?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The ones you have highlighted, February 8, 2013 it says "Going camping this weekend," and the author is the defendant and his recipient is an individual named Allison.
MR. TURNER: Okay. And then the messages under that are an exchange following that message?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, it is. Yes, they are. Excuse me.
MR. TURNER: Now, let me show you Government Exhibit 241, jumping to May 2013.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I have it.
MR. TURNER: Could you go to page three of the document. It's a file that was recovered from the defendant's laptop that's already been shown to the jury named log.txt. And zoom in on actually 4/21. That's fine. Down at the bottom. Okay. The first entry up at the top of the screen, 4/21 to 4/30/2013, it says "Market and forums under sever DoS attack. Gave 10k btc ransom but attack continued. Gave smed server access."
Then on 5/3/2013, "Helping smed fight off attacker, site is mostly down. I'm sick."
5/6/2013, "Working with smed to put up more defenses against attack."
Did you find any emails in the defendant's Gmail account referencing a smed?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: What did you find?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I found an email in May of 2013 from the defendant to an individual with a screen capture contained in it.
MR. TURNER: Let's take a look at that, can you take a look at Government Exhibit 312, please.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Which exhibit?
MR. TURNER: 312.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, but this is not the exhibit.
MR. TURNER: 317. Sorry.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I have it.
MR. TURNER: Okay. Is this the email you're referring to?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 317 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Same objection; Vayner and hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Government Exhibit 317 is received. Those objections are overruled.
(Government's Exhibit 317 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Let's take a look at the message itself first. Blow that up.
MR. TURNER: The subject is IMG from Ross Ulbricht, dated May 2, 2013, and then it's to someone named Curtis. Was there any body in the message?
MR. TURNER: And then it says attachment screenshot from 2013, May first, and a timestamp there.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: That's correct.
MR. TURNER: Is page two the attachment?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, it is.
MR. TURNER: Let's take a look at that. All right. Are you familiar with the print screen feature in a computer?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I am.
MR. TURNER: Did you ever personally use that feature before?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I have.
MR. TURNER: Have you ever used it in a computer attached to two computer monitors?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. That's my setup at work.
MR. TURNER: And what's happened when you used the print screen feature on your computer with two monitors hooked up to it?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I get a result similar to this where you have both screens on the image that is produced.
MR. TURNER: So let's zoom in on the top corner of the right-hand image. So the username frosty is there, the date, May 1, 10:31 p.m. Can you back out, please. Do the same thing for this image.
MR. TURNER: The same thing, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, it is.
MR. TURNER: Could you zoom into the bottom-left corner of the left-hand image, right here.
MR. TURNER: The PDF link here named hidden server.PDF. Do you see that?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Now, let's zoom into the window in the middle of the screen. What do you see?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: That is a Pidgin instant messenger box with the box open and a discussion with an individual named smed and mg in the background.
MR. TURNER: Okay. So the open window has the tab labeled "smed"?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: It says "private conversation with smed...started," and then there's a long string of text starting:
"Smed: Morning.
Me: Hey, good morning."
And then there's a tab here labeled "mg," is that right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, it is.
MR. TURNER: Go back to Government Exhibit 241. Go to the top of page two. Do you see a reference to mg in here?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, in the April 3, 2013 entry.
MR. TURNER: "got pidgin chat working with inigo and mg"?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. TURNER: And just to be clear, the date of that email, 317, what was it again?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The email with the screenshot was dated May 2, 2013.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you back out of that.
MR. TURNER: And the date of the entries we saw before with smed are what?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is within a couple days prior. And it was within one entry, the day after; and the other entry, approximately five days after.
MR. TURNER: Let's take a look at Government Exhibit 264. This is a spreadsheet the jury has already seen from the defendant's computer labeled servers.ods.
MR. TURNER: Can you zoom into the columns, please, up at the top. That's good.
MR. TURNER: Specifically to this one, is there one column in the spreadsheet labeled IP address?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, there is a column.
MR. TURNER: Back out, please, and then could you go here.
MR. TURNER: And one column labeled "notes"?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Can you back out. Can you zoom in down here. Can you highlight this entry right here to here.
MR. TURNER: See this entry on the spreadsheet?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: There's an IP address, 64.31.48.51, and then the notes are "Connected to my real ID maxmind Ubuntu 12.10."
Did you receive any records from Google indicating the IP addresses used by the defendant to log into his Gmail account?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I did.
MR. TURNER: Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 809. I'm sorry. Government Exhibit 333A. Sorry about that.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: 333A?
MR. TURNER: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, I have a stipulation to read, a paragraph from the stipulation that's been marked as Government Exhibit 803.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. TURNER: "Government Exhibit 333A is a true and accurate copy of subscriber information associated with the email account rossulbricht@gmail.com. These records were produced by Google to Agent Alford pursuant to subpoena on or about July 17, 2013. Among other things, Government Exhibit 333A contains a chart reflecting user logins to the email account rossulbricht@gmail.com between January 13, 2013 and June 20, 2013. The chart indicates the date and time of each login, as well as the Internet protocol IP address of the user logging into the account. These records were automatically generated from Google's computer systems at or near the time the logins occurred."
Your Honor, the government offers 333A into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 333A received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you log into this part here.
MR. TURNER: So, do you see the IP address 64.31.48.51 anywhere in the logins of the defendant's Gmail account?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I do.
MR. TURNER: Where are they?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: They are in -- under the column "IP addresses" and 64.31.48.51 appears starting June 17th, 2013 and it continues -- it continues to be listed as the documents until June 20, 2013 in this sheet.
MR. TURNER: Let me fast-forward to September 2013. Can you pull up Government Exhibit 241, please, Mr. Evert. This is the log.txt file we have seen before. Can you go down to the page five and highlight this one right here.
MR. TURNER: So this entry is dated 9/11 to 9/18/2013, "Could not confirm ST bust. Got covered in poison oak trying to get a piece of trash out of a tree in a park nearby and have been moping. Went on a first date with amelia from okc."
Do you see any messages in the defendant's Gmail account about poison oak?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
(Continued on next page)
MR. TURNER: Take a look at Government Exhibit 325.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I have it.
MR. TURNER: What is that?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is an email from the defendant to an individual named Julia in which he references that he has poison oak rash from head to toe.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, the government offers 325 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Vayner and hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: The objection is overruled. GX325 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 325 received in evidence)
THE COURT: At 11:30 we will take a break. Is that all right with everybody?
MR. TURNER: OK, your Honor.
THE COURT: Thanks.
MR. TURNER: Could you zoom in, please, great.
MR. TURNER: The date of the email is 9/19/2013?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: "I have poison oak rash from head to toe. I wish you were here to comfort me."
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. TURNER: How about "first date with Amelia from OKC," did you find anything in the defendant's Gmail account about that?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. I found an e-mail related to an okcupid! related to Amelia.
MR. TURNER: Take a look at Government Exhibit 324.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Is that the email you are referring to?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. It is an email from okcupid! to the defendant.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Government Exhibit 325 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Objection as to Vayner and hearsay, your Honor.
THE COURT: You mean 324?
MR. TURNER: I'm sorry. 324.
THE COURT: Mr. Dratel, was that the exhibit you were referring to?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
THE COURT: The objections are overruled. Government Exhibit 324 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 324 received in evidence)
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: How many emails are included in this exhibit?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Two.
MR. TURNER: Can you zoom in on the header, please, Mr. Evert.
The date is 9/18/2013.
"From: Okcupid!
"To: Ross Ulbricht at Gmail.com.
"Subject: Ross-0, You have a new message from amaliam."
Could you go down, please.
Amaliam says: "Be there in a few. I'm wearing a khaki jacket and white shirt."
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. TURNER: What does the next message say?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The next message says "Nice meeting you," and a phone number is reflected.
MR. TURNER: Take a look at Government Exhibit 130. It has already been admitted into evidence as the notes recovered from the defendant's trashcan in his bedroom.
Could you zoom in here, Mr. Evert.
The phone number written on the piece of paper "Danielle," the area code has been redacted, and it says "5791503." Did you receive any records from Google for a Google Voice account associated with the defendant?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, I have a stipulation to read.
"Government Exhibit 333B is a true and accurate copy of records from the Google Voice account associated with the email account rossulbricht@gmail.com (the Google Voice account). These records were produced by Google to Agent Alford pursuant to subpoena on or about November 15, 2013. Google Voice is a service offered by Google that enables a user, among other things, to send and receive cell phone text messages ("SMS" messages) over the Internet.
"Government Exhibit 333B contains a chart reflecting the SMS messages as well as other types of communications sent to or from the Google Voice account from August 1, 2013 to September 19, 2013. For each of these SMS messages the chart indicates the date and time of the message, whether the message was incoming ("SMS in") or outgoing ("SMS out") and the phone number of the other party to the message.
"These records were automatically generated from Google's computer system at or near the time of each communication."
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at 333B, please.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, the government offers 333B into evidence.
THE COURT: All right. Mr. Dratel.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: All right. Received.
(Government's Exhibit 333B received in evidence)
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I have it.
MR. TURNER: Would you publish it, Mr. Evert.
Could you put 130 back on the screen with that number up top.
MR. TURNER: Can you find the records on the spreadsheet, Mr. Alford, Agent Alford, that have -- well, I'm asking you, did you find this phone number anywhere in these records?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, could you zoom in on one of those entries.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I believe they are on page 4.
MR. TURNER: OK. Page 4. And where are they?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Towards the top of page 4.
MR. TURNER: OK. Right there.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
(Pause)
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, we are at a good stopping place.
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, let's take our mid-morning break and we will come back and then we will go until lunchtime. And the same reminders as you have been hearing not to talk to each other about this case or anyone else. Thank you.
COURT CLERK: All rise as the jury leaves.
(Continued on next page)
(Jury not present)
THE COURT: You can step down for a few minutes and we will resume in about ten minutes.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Thank you.
(Witness not present)
THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, let's all be seated. I have one matter and it relates to 227I, the chat log page. And I want to understand, since you'd gotten the other chat log pages in through a different witness, whether or not 227I the government can represent is from the same group as to which the other Simon, Cimon chats relate and it just happens to be a different page.
MR. TURNER: Yes, your Honor. And you can see that in the name of the file that's at the top of the header of the document. It is from the same file as the other ones.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. TURNER: All the other ones with that same individual.
THE COURT: So this was out of all of the others for the Cimon, or Simon, log that were previously admitted, this is jury another excerpt of the same group, is that right?
MR. TURNER: Correct.
THE COURT: OK. All right. Thank you.
Was there anything else which you folks wanted to raise before we take our own mid-morning break?
MR. TURNER: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: Mr. Dratel?
MR. DRATEL: No, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you. Let's take a short break and we'll come back.
COURT CLERK: All rise.
(Recess)
THE COURT: Let bring out the jury.
(Continued on next page)
COURT CLERK: All rise as the jury enters.
(Jury present)
THE COURT: All right. When you get to your seats, please be seated. Thank you.
And, Joe, there is something that is buzzing.
Mr. Turner, you may proceed, sir.
MR. TURNER: Thank you.
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: Agent Alford, did any agents in your group ever make any uncover purchases of drugs from Silk Road?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, I have a stipulation to read. It has been marked as Government Exhibit 802A.
THE COURT: All right.
MR. TURNER: And while I am reading, may I publish Government Exhibit 802 for the jury, which is what it corresponds to?
THE COURT: Yes.
Any objection to -- well, 802, is it already in or are you offering it?
MR. TURNER: I am offering it based on the stipulation.
THE COURT: On the stipulation.
Mr. Dratel?
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
(Government's Exhibit 802 received in evidence)
THE COURT: All right. Proceed.
MR. TURNER: Thank you.
"It is hereby stipulated and agreed by and between the United States of America, by Preet Bharara, United States Attorney for Southern District of New York, Serrin Turner and Timothy Howard, Assistant United States Attorneys, of counsel, and Ross Ulbricht, by and through his counsel Joshua Dratel, Esq., as follows:
"1. If called to testify, Shelby Richardson, a Special Agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration ("DEA") would testify that from September 2011 to May 2013, Special Agent Richardson attempted a total of eight undercover purchases from the Silk Road website using the Silk Road username 'downersforyou.' Government Exhibit 802 is a spreadsheet reflecting the results of the undercover purchases. The column labeled 'Purchase Date' indicates the date the order was placed on the website. The column labeled 'Vendor' indicates the username of the vendor with whom the order was placed. The column labeled 'drug Ordered' indicates the type of drug ordered. The column labeled 'Delivery Date' indicates the date that the order was retrieved from the mailing address designated by Special Agent Richardson and placing the order.
"All of the orders reflected in the spreadsheet were placed by Special Agent Richardson using a computer located in the Southern District of New York and were shipped to an undercover mailing address located in the Southern District of New York. All of the substances received were submitted to the DEA Northeast Laboratory for testing.
"2. If called to testify Russell J. Gallis, a forensic chemist with the DEA, would testify that on the dates indicated in the column of Government Exhibit 802 labeled 'Lab Test Date' Mr. Gallis tested each of the substances Special Agent Richardson transferred to the DEA Northeast Laboratory. The column of the spreadsheet labeled 'Net Weight' reflects the weight of each substance submitted for testing after removal of any packaging. The column of the spreadsheet labeled 'Drug Detected' indicates any illegal drugs the substance was found to contain through testing a sample of the substance using reliable laboratory procedures. As reflected in the spreadsheet, all substances submitted by Special Agent Richardson tested positive for illegal drugs."
Your Honor, the government offers Government Exhibit 802 and the stipulation 802A into evidence.
THE COURT: 802 has been received and 802A is received as a stipulation.
(Government's Exhibit 802A received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Thank you.
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: Agent Alford, did you yourself participate in any undercover purchases from Silk Road?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: What did you purchase?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I purchased a hacking pack.
MR. TURNER: And by "hacking pack," what do you mean?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is -- it was a listing for tools for someone to acquire, computer programs or tools to perform computer hacking.
MR. TURNER: Could we actually publish Government Exhibit 116B, which has already been admitted into evidence.
MR. TURNER: The jury saw this earlier. Is this the listing for what you purchased?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: And the advertisement is for "HUGE hacking pack, 150+ hacking tools & programs, "is that right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: And would you take a look at Government Exhibit 340B in your binder.
Do you recognize this document?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: What is it?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is a screenshot of the order that we placed for the previously mentioned listing.
MR. TURNER: And what is the date of that screenshot?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: September 20, 2013.
MR. TURNER: Is that around the same time that you -- that your group made the purchase?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 340B into evidence.
THE COURT: My 340B is different from what you have just described. I think that corresponds with what I have marked as 340A. Am I wrong about this?
MR. TURNER: There should be a verified order section at the bottom.
THE COURT: 340A relates to the hacking tools. Is that what you are attempting to --
MR. TURNER: Both should, your Honor, 340A and 340B.
THE COURT: B relates to something else that I've got in my binder unless you have changed the exhibit numbers. I just want to make sure that I understand what we are receiving into evidence.
(Pause)
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, maybe if you look at the bottom portion of 340B.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. TURNER: That is what I am going to be referring to.
THE COURT: Oh, I'm sorry. OK. I was looking at the top portion of 340B. All right.
MR. TURNER: OK.
THE COURT: 340B, Mr. Dratel?
MR. DRATEL: Objection with respect to hearsay and Vayner. Hearsay certainly.
THE COURT: I'm sorry. It is a hearsay objection?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
THE COURT: Hearsay and Vayner?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
THE COURT: All right. Overruled.
Government Exhibit 340B is received.
(Government's Exhibit 340B received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Could you zoom in to the "Verified Orders," Mr. Evert.
MR. TURNER: So this is -- could you explain what is shown here, Agent Alford?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is the record that we received from the Silk Road marketplace about our completed -- we as soon as we completed the order, we added it to cart so that is what is represented in the account.
MR. TURNER: All right. You said you placed this order around September 20, 2013?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: And what was the result of the order?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: We received a response with links to click on.
MR. TURNER: And where did you receive that response?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Into the same account on the Silk Road marketplace.
MR. TURNER: What feature of the Silk Road system?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The messaging system.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at 340A, and do you recognize this exhibit in your binder?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. It is a screenshot of the response we got back on the Silk Road marketplace for the order we placed.
MR. TURNER: And the response you got back from who?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The Silk Road marketplace and the vendor.
MR. TURNER: From the vendor?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. TURNER: OK.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, we offer 340A into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: The same objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. 340A is received.
(Government's Exhibit 340A received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Zoom into the -- actually, could you go up top, Mr. Evert, to the title there, the "Huge."
From: Sniffsniff5.0.
Subject Line: HUGE hacking pack, 150-hacking tools & programs.
And then could you go down, Mr. Evert, to the body of the message.
All right. It says "hello," and then there are a bunch of links, or three links specifically. And then it says "Freebies." There are a series of other links. Then it says, "Please keep in mind that not all program will work in each folder, but that's why I'm sending you extra working programs. Thank you for purchasing my listing. If you have any questions, feel free to send me a message."
Did you yourself click on any of the links you got back in response to this message?
MR. TURNER: What did you do with this information?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Provided it over to the FBI.
MR. TURNER: No further questions, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
Mr. Dratel.
CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MR. DRATEL:
MR. DRATEL: Well, just about good afternoon, Agent Alford.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Good afternoon.
MR. DRATEL: I want to go back to something you testified about this morning, government Exhibit 317.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: That is an image attached to an email, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. DRATEL: If we can go to the image.
Now, if we go to the box there in the image on the left. And that is a chat window, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. It appears so.
MR. DRATEL: It is a Pidgin chat window?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: That is reflected in the screen?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: So if you look at the screen that's behind the first screen -- do you see -- and that would be the one that Mr. Ulbricht is operating on, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I can't say.
MR. DRATEL: Well, there is a different avatar at the bottom right there, correct? There is an avatar at the bottom right there, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: That -- what you are pointing at?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, that's an avatar.
MR. DRATEL: And I want to go back to Government Exhibit 201 and show it to you on the screen:
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Just 201?
MR. DRATEL: F. 201F.
(Pause)
MR. DRATEL: I'm sorry. 201G.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: 201G?
MR. DRATEL: It is already in evidence.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: All right. Got it.
MR. DRATEL: If you look on the bottom right, this is from the day of Mr. Ulbricht's arrest, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I was not at his arrest.
MR. DRATEL: But you are familiar with the photographs taken of his laptop?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: This is one of them, correct? It is already in evidence.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: OK. Yes.
MR. DRATEL: That avatar on the bottom right is someone with a sword essentially, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: And a mask?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It is pretty blurred, but, yes, I've seen that avatar.
MR. DRATEL: That is Dread Pirate Roberts' avatar?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: I want to go back to yesterday -- Monday, I guess -- your testimony with respect to those original Altoid posts that you testified about, correct? Do you understand what I am talking about, with bitcoin talk forum and shroomery.org?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: All of those, with one exception which I will talk about, were in the first half of 2011, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: 2011?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: The time indicated on the screenshot was 2011. I did not take them in 2011.
MR. DRATEL: No, I'm not saying you took them in 2011, but the dates of those posts were 2011?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: In your first half.
Then there was one from October of 2011.
MR. DRATEL: If we can go to government 306, please.
MR. DRATEL: So just look at the date first. That is October 11 -- I'm sorry, October 11, 2011, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: And that is about -- that is from Altoid, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. DRATEL: "Looking for an IT person for a bitcoin startup company," right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: And then as contact information, it leaves the address rossulbricht@Gmail.org -- @gmail.com, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. DRATEL: And this is eight months after those other posts -- at least eight months from the other posts that you talked about in Government Exhibit 301, 302, 303, 304 -- if you want to --
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Are you talking about the Altoid posts?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. Approximately eight months after.
MR. DRATEL: Now, as you mentioned just before, you didn't do that at the time that those were posted, when you took those screenshots down, right?
MR. TURNER: Objection to form.
MR. DRATEL: When you took those screenshots down, it was not at the time that the posts were made back in 2011?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: No, I wasn't on the case.
MR. DRATEL: So what you did was historical research on the Internet, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: And so what you showed us with those Altoid posts and that information was from clicking -- well, first, putting in search terms, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: Restricting the dates, right, that you told us Monday, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: And putting in those search terms. And then when you had results, you would click on links and that took you to those posts, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: And so anyone using Google, or whatever search engine you might use, putting in search terms like that would find the same results, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: Now, you researched everything you could about Mr. Ulbricht in 2013, right, at some point in 2013, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I don't know about "everything" but a lot.
MR. DRATEL: Everything you could find, pretty much, on open records and a lot of subpoenas, as well?
MR. TURNER: Objection. Beyond the scope.
THE COURT: Well, I think -- rephrase. Why don't you rephrase it, Mr. Dratel.
MR. DRATEL: Sure.
MR. DRATEL: Did you do a lot of open-source research on the Internet with respect to finding out about Mr. Ulbricht?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I don't know about your definition about "a lot" but I did do public-source research on Mr. Ulbricht.
MR. DRATEL: What kind of public-source research did you do?
MR. TURNER: The same objection. Beyond the scope.
THE COURT: I will allow it. We'll see where it is going. I will allow a few.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Well, there is Internet searches. We have a public records search that we use. FinCEN.
MR. DRATEL: Can you explain what FinCEN is?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It's a Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. There is a database where you can go into the database to look for certain financial transactions that would be filed in the database.
MR. DRATEL: Were there any results from your FinCEN search?
MR. TURNER: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. DRATEL: You didn't find anything about Mr. Ulbricht from your FinCEN search, correct?
MR. TURNER: Objection.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. DRATEL: You looked at his LinkedIn, right? You looked at his LinkedIn --
MR. TURNER: The same objection.
MR. DRATEL: -- account?
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. DRATEL: Your Honor, may we have a sidebar?
THE COURT: Yes.
(Continued on next page)
(At the sidebar)
THE COURT: I will tell you the basis of my rulings first so you know that they are beyond the scope of the direct examination.
MR. DRATEL: The direct examination included things that he found during his research.
THE COURT: And you can inquire into any of them.
MR. DRATEL: But I should also be able to go into what he didn't find. The scope of his investigation is fair game on the cross.
THE COURT: No, it is not, not in the way that you are doing it. What you are trying to do is -- if you want to ask somebody about LinkedIn, you need to find a witness who has talked about linked.
MR. DRATEL: I don't think so. I think that if he has done this investigation of him, they can't just narrow it. What the scope is is not what he testified about; it is the subject matter of his testimony. The subject matter of his testimony is he did Internet research on the guy. And they are allowed to put in the things they want to put in, I don't think that is fair for the scope of cross.
THE COURT: You can't inadvertently build up his character.
MR. DRATEL: I am not trying to. That is not what the question is about.
THE COURT: Let me ask the government.
MR. TURNER: Your Honor is exactly right. We have been over this territory before. If they want to use evidence in their affirmative case that their LinkedIn page, first of all, is not hearsay and it is properly authenticated and it is somehow relevant to the defendant's case, they can do that. They don't get to do that through this witness.
THE COURT: All right. My ruling stands. OK? So stay within the investigation, stay within the areas of search. But if there are things where you are wondering if they are within that you haven't yet covered, you can ask a question and I will sustain an objection but --
MR. DRATEL: Yes. I need to make a record.
THE COURT: You can make a record at the break. That we can do at the break.
MR. DRATEL: I need to ask the questions.
THE COURT: We can make a record as to various things at the break. But if you want to cover certain things which you think are in a gray area right now, I am not going to preclude you from doing that. But if there are things that you can do other than what you know is going to be objectionable, then let's go ahead and do them now.
MR. DRATEL: I don't know what is objectionable. In my experience, I have in never been so curtailed with cross-examination of an agent who has done a wholesale investigation of the defendant and then to be only limited to the things that the government wants to put in is just, to me, I will have to get through this and see where we are.
THE COURT: I am comfortable with my rulings despite your experience.
(Continued on next page)
(In open court)
(Pause)
BY MR. DRATEL:
MR. DRATEL: Now, with respect to the hacking tools that you talked about just before you completed your direct testimony, you did not click on any of those links, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: No, I did not click on any of the links.
MR. DRATEL: So when you were assigned to the Silk Road case, you obviously examined a significant amount about the site, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. I researched the site.
MR. DRATEL: Would you -- is it fair to say, it was the most sophisticated and extensive criminal marketplace on the Internet today?
MR. TURNER: Objection. Foundation.
THE COURT: I think you need to lay more of a foundation --
MR. DRATEL: Well --
THE COURT: -- for this witness for comparison.
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: Had you ever seen an Internet site as sophisticated as Silk Road in terms of a place where you could buy drugs on the Internet?
MR. TURNER: Objection to form. Foundation. 403.
THE COURT: I will allow it. You may answer.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I can't really say. It was my first case, so it was the one and only so.
MR. DRATEL: Well, didn't you write that it was the most sophisticated and extensive criminal marketplace on the Internet today?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: At the time of the investigation? At which time are you talking about?
MR. DRATEL: September 30, 2013, in the civil forfeiture complaint that you signed.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: And Silk Road in its current form at the time as of September 30, 2013 was created on or about June 18, 2011, right?
MR. TURNER: Objection to form. Foundation.
THE COURT: Do you mean to say -- why don't you rephrase the question. So I think that you want to compare the June 2011 to September 2013.
BY MR. DRATEL:
MR. DRATEL: Well, the Silk Road that existed in September of 2013 was in that form created on or about June 18, 2011, right?
MR. TURNER: Objection. Foundation.
THE COURT: If you know.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I don't know if it was created at that time. I came by the case in 2013.
MR. DRATEL: Did you write "Silk Road in its current form was created on or about June 18, 2011," did you write that September 30, 2013 in the civil forfeiture complaint that you signed under oath?
MR. TURNER: Objection to the foundation of the claim.
THE COURT: I will allow the question.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I would have to refresh my memory. I would have to see the document.
MR. DRATEL: I show you what's marked 3501-207 through -263.
(Pause)
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, the government objects. The complaint says, "Upon information and belief."
THE COURT: Hold on. Hold on. Let me just --
MR. DRATEL: He said --
THE COURT: I understand. Can I just take a look at it? I don't have that series handy. Sorry.
(Continued on next page)
THE COURT: Mr. Dratel, can you point me to a page?
MR. DRATEL: Sure. 245, your Honor.
THE COURT: 245. With the signature?
MR. DRATEL: Is that the signature page? I thought that was --
THE COURT: 245 is not a signature page.
MR. DRATEL: Oh, the signature page. There's --
THE COURT: You said he signed something.
MR. DRATEL: 238.
THE COURT: 238?
MR. DRATEL: Wait.
THE COURT: The only signature I have is on the last page, but there may be another one.
MR. DRATEL: No. There's another page, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Hold on. Hold on. It's pages 208 through I think it's 238 or 228. I can't tell. It's cut off. Let me just take a look. I'll allow it.
Mr. Dratel.
MR. DRATEL: Thank you.
THE COURT: The government can bring out what it wants to bring out in cross or redirect.
MR. DRATEL: Thank you, your Honor.
THE COURT: I'm sorry. There are some pages.
MR. DRATEL: Thanks.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: May I see it.
MR. DRATEL: Yes. Certainly. I'm just going to caddycorner it for you here.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Thank you.
MR. DRATEL: I ask you to look at 245, if you want to look at the document, but I'm directing you to 245.
THE COURT: There are two different documents in the pile that I had.
MR. DRATEL: Right.
THE COURT: The first pile on the right was the one with the signature that I was referencing.
MR. DRATEL: Right.
THE COURT: That's Exhibit A to the same document, Mr. Dratel?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: My signature page --
MR. DRATEL: Your signature page is here.
THE COURT: To be clear, that's not his statement in Exhibit A. You'll rephrase that.
MR. DRATEL: I'll get to that.
THE COURT: Thank you.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Can you point to my signature page?
MR. DRATEL: Sure. It's on the back of that first document.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: This one?
MR. DRATEL: Let me go up there and make sure we're looking at the right one. This document.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Okay. All right. Thank you.
MR. DRATEL: And let me show you one other thing and draw your attention to this and make sure I have the right page. Okay. So, look at page 215 which is your -- which is the civil forfeiture complaint.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Okay. This one. Yes.
MR. DRATEL: That incorporates by reference the other document, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: So when you do that, you're incorporating by reference meaning you're adopting everything in there, right?
MR. TURNER: Your Honor, the government objects on hearsay grounds. The witness should not be permitted to testify --
THE COURT: If it's an adopted statement, let me just ask, apart from a legal definition of incorporation by reference, Mr. Dratel, why don't you ask him what he meant he intended to do.
MR. DRATEL: What did you intend to do by incorporating by reference that other document?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: This document?
MR. DRATEL: Yes.
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I was incorporating it into the civil forfeiture so we can seize the --
MR. DRATEL: Right --
GARY LUIS ALFORD: -- the servers.
MR. DRATEL: But the purpose of putting that in there was to include all the facts that were in there in the -- withdrawn.
The purpose of incorporating the complaint, the criminal complaint by reference, was to incorporate all of those facts into the civil forfeiture complaint, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Correct.
MR. DRATEL: So if you look at page 245, --
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes.
MR. DRATEL: -- does that refresh your recollection?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes, it does.
MR. DRATEL: That the current form Silk Road was created on or about June 18, 2011?
MR. TURNER: The government objects on hearsay grounds and beyond the scope.
THE COURT: It's not beyond the scope. It's for a different purpose.
Mr. Dratel, why don't you, just so we have a clear Q and A, though the prior question may have gotten so far lost with the back and forth.
MR. DRATEL: Thank you, your Honor.
MR. DRATEL: So, does that refresh your recollection that you had stated that in its current form, Silk Road was created on or about June 18, 2011?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Can you repeat the question.
MR. DRATEL: Sure. That you had stated that Silk Road in its current form was created on or about June 18, 2011?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: It was my belief at that time.
MR. DRATEL: But you stated it under oath in that document, right?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: Yes. It was my belief.
MR. DRATEL: And that was based on your looking at all of the evidence available to you from the Internet and from other pieces of your investigation as well, right?
THE COURT: I think we need to be clear. The statement was admitted for the limited purpose of impeachment and refreshing recollection, not for the truth of the statement, just so that it's clear. I think you should proceed accordingly.
MR. DRATEL: On October 19, 2011, there was an outage on the Silk Road that was reported, right, on the site?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I don't know. October 19?
MR. DRATEL: 2011, did you see posts indicating an outage on the Silk Road October 19, 2011?
MR. TURNER: Objection; beyond the scope. He's already testified.
THE COURT: I don't know yet.
MR. TURNER: He testified his investigation did not begin until 2013.
THE COURT: Hold on.
Does this tie in directly to one of the posts the government has showed him?
MR. DRATEL: Well, it's the same time as that October 11 post that they showed, the Altoid post.
THE COURT: All right. Why don't you go ahead and proceed.
MR. DRATEL: October 19, 2011, you're aware of posts on Silk Road that there was an outage on the site at that time, correct?
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I'd have to see those posts.
MR. DRATEL: Okay. Look at 247. See if that --
GARY LUIS ALFORD: I see it.
MR. DRATEL: Okay. The October 19, 2011 posts reported an outage on the site at Silk Road?