2.Jared Der-Yeghiayan — Direct (Part 5)
643 linesDIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: Agent Der-Yeghiayan, yesterday we left off talking about the defendant's arrest, and I want to get back to that in a minute, but first I want to go back to a topic that we didn't quite finish earlier yesterday.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, could you pull up Government Exhibit 125B and go to page 2.
MR. TURNER: So this was a forum post we looked at yesterday, Dread Pirate Roberts, and it says, "Drumroll, please. My new name is Dread Pirate Roberts."
First of all, I wanted to ask you, are you familiar with the name Dread Pirate Roberts in the context of pop culture?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I am.
MR. TURNER: How are you familiar with it? Where does it come from?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It came from a movie from I think it is like the '80s.
MR. TURNER: What is the movie called?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: The Princess Bride.
MR. TURNER: And what is the basic legend of the Dread Pirate Roberts in the movie?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: So in the movie there is -- the main character was the Dread Pirate Roberts, and he met up with one of his loves in his life and he confessed to them that he was not the original Dread Pirate Roberts, that he took over the identity of Dread Pirate Roberts from another guy I think by the name of Ryan and that guy got it from another guy whose name was like Cumberbundt, or something like that, and then he got it from the original Dread Pirate Roberts that was retired like 15 years earlier. And the whole point of it was that the identity was what was important, the name was important, that the name lived on. So multiple people could basically assume that name, and it is just the -- or the story of Dread Pirate Roberts would be the intimidating factor.
MR. TURNER: OK. And we also looked yesterday at this "Begin PGP sign message" and "PGP signature" underneath. Let's try it again.
So what is the benefit of having a PGP sign message and what does that mean?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: So a PGP sign message, again, is just a way to authenticate or validate who you are online. So when you first -- when you are talking to someone on the Internet, it is hard to always validate you are always talking to the same person every time you see them day after day. So one of the ways that we are able to identify ourselves is using this program, this PGP, because it allows you to create a key that is unique to you that you share with other people, and that key, it is a public key, you could use to verify messages from them at a later date, messages they could sign, that they will authenticate so that you will know time and time again that that person has the same key that you are talking to. It is an unique key as well.
MR. TURNER: All right. So did Dread Pirate Roberts post his public key anywhere on the site?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, he did.
MR. TURNER: We looked at this exhibit before, Government Exhibit 133. Could you put that up on the screen. Please zoom in.
And when was this screenshot taken by you again?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: What exhibit was that again?
MR. TURNER: That was 133.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That was August 19, 2013.
MR. TURNER: And so you could take this public key and do what with it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This would be something that I could then use to authenticate messages that would be later on signed by Dread Pirate Roberts.
MR. TURNER: Like the one we just saw on the forum?
MR. TURNER: Did this public key change over time of Dread Pirate Roberts, or did it stay the same as long as you investigated the site?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: From the beginning of my investigation until the time of the arrest, it stayed the same.
MR. TURNER: Could we take a look at Government Exhibit 133A, please, which did not come in yesterday yet so please don't publish it.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was a screenshot that I took of Dread Pirate Roberts' profile on the Silk Road market page on September 19, 2012.
MR. TURNER: So how does that date -- well, your Honor, we would offer this exhibit into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Just a hearsay objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. For the same reasons that we've previously discussed, that objection is overruled.
GX-133A is received.
(Government's Exhibit 133A received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Put that up, Mr. Evert, and zoom in down here.
MR. TURNER: So this is from approximately what, a year earlier than the last one?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: About, yes.
MR. TURNER: And it is the exact same public key?
MR. TURNER: Did you prepare any sort of demonstration for the jury today to help you explain these concepts and help explain how PGP keys work?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I have.
MR. TURNER: Would it aid your testimony to give that demonstration to the jury?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it would.
MR. TURNER: May I approach, your Honor?
THE COURT: You may.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize the CD I am handing you right now?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It is a disc that I initialed that contains the video that I prepared.
MR. TURNER: May I take it back?
MR. TURNER: I am showing the witness what has been marked as Government Exhibit 133B. With your Honor's permission, may we play it for the jury?
THE COURT: Yes. I take it you have shown that to the defendant?
MR. TURNER: Yes.
THE COURT: All right.
(Pause)
MR. TURNER: OK. So if you could do the same thing with this video that you did with yesterday's video, if you could tell Mr. Evert when to start and stop and walk the jury through what it shows, please.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: OK. So what I'm going to demonstrate here in this video is me creating a message and then digitally signing it using the key that I own. So I will show you how that process is done, how I would sign the message, and then how I could verify that that message is authentic from my key.
So the first thing I am going to show you once -- if you would begin, please -- is a program that you would use to store your key. And in this instance I have already my key in there. This is one of the keys I used in my Cirrus account.
MR. TURNER: Agent Jared, could I just interrupt you?
Is this a public key that you are talking about right now?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is both a public key and a private key.
MR. TURNER: And could you explain the difference between private key and public key?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Absolutely. So I not only have my public key, which I could share with other people that could verify me, and then I also have the private key, which is what is unique to me. I'm the only one that has that, and that's what allows me to create messages from my key. It basically allows me to sign messages.
MR. TURNER: And if you don't use your private key to sign your message, can the public key be used to authenticate it came from you?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Without the private key, you cannot create a message. You can't sign it without the private key.
MR. TURNER: OK. Go ahead.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: And so right now it's paused, and, actually, you could stop it. I'm sorry.
What this is is it is the profile of the key, and there is there are a few things to point out. That there is a name that you enter in when you create the key as well as an email address. This can be anything you want. It doesn't have to be anything real. In this instance the name that I used was "me" with a lot of e's. And then that is a fake email account, which is just 101010@101010.org. You don't have to enter anything that is real. It is just whatever you want to enter in, you can; it is not required to enter in anything that is real.
The other thing that I wanted to point out is the create date. That is automatically added to the key when you create it. It is on there. You can't modify that or adjust it. It is part of the key. So it will document that. In this case this key was created on October 2, 2013.
So when I am going to share my key, everyone can see this information. So my public key and they have it. This is what they will see. They will see the name of me. They will see the email address that I created, and they will see when I created that account as well.
And so if you could go ahead and play, I am going to show you how I would then create a message using my key and how I would sign that message, then, using it.
So I'm closing out the program, and I would use simply a text file, in this instance, to then type my message. So I'm writing -- this is an example of me signing the message using my PGP key -- the message I wrote using my PGP key. So in order to do this, all I have to do is highlight the message and in this instance right click, and I need to just click things as signed. And as I click sign -- can you pause it, please -- this is then what the result will be. And it will essentially take my message, which is in the body above here. This is an example of me signing a message saying I wrote using my PGP key, and it adds this signature at the bottom.
And so now I'm going to go through and I am going to find -- if I share this with someone else, they can now verify this came from me and I'll show you how I would do that.
MR. TURNER: They verify it using what?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Using, again, a program such as this, a PGP program using my public key that I would have shared with them.
In this instance I have my public key so I can verify my own key.
If you could play it.
First, I just wanted to show you again I have highlighted that that was the original message that I typed and I signed. Then in order to verify it, I just simply have to right click and verify. And it is going to tell me -- if you could pause it, please -- that this is a good signature, and it says -- it is a good signature from the person "me" with my email address. So I was able to automatically recognize the key that I had stored in my program and verify it to that message and tell me it is a good signature.
Click play, please.
And I'm going to show you what would happen if I was to now alter this message after I signed it. So this is me typing extra information in there after signing the document. So it is no longer the same document that I signed.
Now, I go to verify it again after I altered it -- can you pause it, please -- it is going to tell me that I have a bad signature by that user. So there is no way after you sign a document to alter it, to then manipulate it in any way. Once you sign that message, it has to stay exactly that message intact.
MR. TURNER: Does that include the signature down at the bottom, if any part of that signature changes.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That is correct. Anything on that from basically the top line that begins "PGP sign message" all the way through the very bottom has to remain exactly the same, the same amount of spaces, the same amount of characters. Everything has to be exact in order for it to authenticate.
Can you click play, please.
I am just going to demonstrate that again by removing the information that I added originally to it and verifying it again in the original state that it was. And it's going to come back with a good signature again, that that was the original message.
So now I'm going to take -- these are on the right-hand side -- a text file of -- I will let him scroll first. Can you pause it, please. On the right-hand side there is a text file of all of DPR's posts from the forum from the beginning of his account in around June 2011 'til about May 2013. That was all of the posts that I copied out of the forum and into a text file such as this.
And on the left-hand side I also have a screenshot that I took from my Cirrus account of posts that were made by Dread Pirate Roberts, and what I am going to do first is show you now if I was a user how I would acquire Dread Pirate Roberts' public key and then how would I verify basically things that he wrote. So I am going through the steps of essentially taking in his public key that he shares with everybody and then verifying things that he wrote using his signature.
So first this is -- if you want to play it, please. This is one post that I copied, again, from Dread Pirate Roberts' profile. And it came from November 2012 -- November 12, 2012, which is up on the top. And he signed a message that said "The sig checks out for me," but I will do another one just in case. And then he says -- if you could pause it right now, please. He says, and right here -- "And here is the public key that I've been using since the site began, normally located on my user page on my main site.
MR. TURNER: Just to be clear, the user page on my main site, is that the page we saw before with the --
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It is referring to the Silk Road market page.
MR. TURNER: That is the page we saw before with the public key?
MR. TURNER: OK.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: And so you could tell that this is his public key down below because it says "begin PGP public key." So this information from here to here is his public key, again. That was a screenshot. I can't copy that text exactly and import it so I have to use that text document to do it. So what I am going to show you is that the text document on the right is the same information that is from the screenshot from the left.
If you could play it, please.
So again this is the text document. I just wanted to point out that it is the same date. Now, this was copied from a user that actually has time set differently on his computer when I originally copied this stuff. So it is slightly different, but it is hours different because of the UTC variation. But, again, it is the same message and the same PGP key.
So can you pause it, please. Pause, please.
So right now in order to import this key -- that is actually fine. That is a good place to stop.
I would highlight his public key, and what I am going to do is import it. There is a second option up here above this. And that's all I have to simply do in order to bring in his public key into my program and for me to verify his signatures at a later date. So right now I am going to import his key.
So click play, please.
There is nothing so important about importing it or taking it as more than that this is how I would capture it. And if you could pause it, please. It tells me right now that the import was successful and that I imported a key that was titled Silk Road with the email address staff@silkroadmarket.org and the import was OK. So it let me know that the import was successful, that I was able to capture that public key.
MR. TURNER: So now it is on your computer permanently?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes. Not permanently. I can delete it, too.
MR. TURNER: Sure.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: So if you click play, please.
I'm going to show you off that same program where I keep my key.
If you could pause it, please.
This is now that imported key that's from Silk Road. So his public key is now available, and it lets me know that all I have is his public key with that "pub." And the one up above says "sec/pub," and that means that I have the private key and the public key for the key up above, which is mine, but. I only have the public key for Silk Road. I do not have the private key.
MR. TURNER: Just to be clear, the public key you are talking about, that is used to verify a signature. The private key is used to sign the signature, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes. The private key is used to sign it and the public key is used to verify.
MR. TURNER: The Silk Road name, did that come from you or was that automatically generated when you downloaded it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That was what was created in the key when it was created by the user who created it.
MR. TURNER: So you didn't create that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I did not.
MR. TURNER: And the Silk Road -- the staff@silkroadmarket.org, same thing?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: The same thing. I am going to open his profile.
If you click play.
MR. TURNER: I just want to make clear. You mentioned earlier that you used a fictitious email address in creating your key?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: Do you know whether staff@silkroadmarket.org is a real email address?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That domain, which is silkroadmarket.org, that website does exist or did exist at the time. It was a website that was on the open Internet that was used to advertise the Silk Road market on Tor. It was a redirect for people that would be maybe doing a Google search on the regular Internet. And Google searching "Silk Road," they would find that website, and that website would give you directions on how to get to the Tor Silk Road website.
MR. TURNER: OK. But the email address, staff@silkroadmarket.org, do you know if that was real or not?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I'm not sure if it was --
MR. TURNER: So it could have been fictitious, it could have been real, it doesn't really matter for the program?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Right.
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Leading.
THE COURT: Why don't you rephrase.
MR. TURNER: I will withdraw, your Honor.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: OK. So if you click play, please. I just want to show you when I opened that -- again, if you pause it for a second -- the name that is on the account is Silk Road. The email account that was entered in by the user that created it was staff@silkroadmarket.org, and it was created on April 1, 2011 at 4:47 a.m. And that is information, again, that I can't modify that comes with the key that comes when you share it.
Can you click play.
So now that we have his public key stored, we can now verify messages that were signed by him. And so I am going to go through this list on my right. I am going to scroll down.
Now, the bottom is the oldest messages and it starts around June 2011, and it goes chronologically to the top which, would be the newest messages, which would be May 2013. And what I'm going to do from the bottom is basically try to find one of his first signed messages that I could see, and this is the first signed one.
If you could pause it, please.
And this is from June 19, 2011. And it is, again, a signed message, and so I am going to try to verify this now signed message with this key that I just imported.
Can you click play, please.
So, again, I copied the entire message. I simply right clicked and then clicked verify.
If you could pause it, please.
This then shows that I have a good signature from Silk Road at staff@silkroadmarket.org. So it is verifying that that message that was signed -- and this is what a user would do if they would see this message and maybe they didn't know if they could trust who is posting this on the forum or posting it elsewhere or posting it anywhere on the Internet, how do I know that I can trust this message that came from Dread Pirate Roberts? Because anyone could just start up an account maybe and try to fake it's him, well, this would be one way to do it because this key is somewhere that somebody would have already, something that they know they could trust him with, something that would be something that is from the past.
And so click play, please.
I am going to also show that this key stayed the same over time. And so I'm going to actually scroll up somewhat randomly here and go up to a post that I found from -- this is from January 16, 2012. And, again, I'm going to try to verify this. That's all I'm doing, just verifying that the message is a good signature. So when I could verify, again it comes back as a good signature from Silk Road at staff@silkroadmarket.org.
I'm going to scroll up again. This time I am going to try to find something later in 2012, early 2013, to see if, again, that signature is the same signature from that same key and if it still verifies that it came from Dread Pirate Roberts' public key.
(Pause)
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Some of these I'm skipping over because they are a little bit longer and I just wanted to get a message that was shorter so you could see the entire message. So this one was from November 23, 2012. Again, this is another signed message with a signature. And just by highlighting the entire message and clicking "verify," it will tell me it is a good signature.
And, lastly, I'm going to go up to my most recent copy that I had of a post that was made by Dread Pirate Roberts, and I was going to see if that one, too, will verify. That was from -- it is going to be from May of 2013.
So this is the most recent post I had, and this is from May 7, 2013. When I say "most recent post I have," it is just on this particular text file.
And when I click "verify," again it comes back as a good signature, that it stayed the same signature and the same key from 2011, 2012 -- late 2012 and May of 2013.
I'm going to show you again -- now, if I was to alter this message that was signed by DPR -- so I typed in "altered." Do you want to pause it, please. So down at the bottom here I actually typed in "altered" on this text page. I am going to try to verify it now again that I have changed that message.
Click play, please. And if you pause it.
It comes back as a bad signature now. There is no way that I could alter that message and still have it come up as a good signature. It has to stay in its original state that was created by the person that owns that key.
And if you click play. Again, I am going to remove that -- actually, I could do a different version but that is the end of the video.
MR. TURNER: All right. So what does the fact that you were able to verify those different messages from DPR at different times imply about the user who posted those messages?
MR. DRATEL: Objection.
THE COURT: Why don't you rephrase it.
MR. TURNER: OK.
MR. TURNER: So what did the person who posted those different messages from DPR at different times have to have in order for you to be able to successfully validate each of those messages?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Since all those messages were verified with the same public key, they had to have the same private key for that entire duration. So it is one person with one --
MR. DRATEL: Objection. Objection.
THE COURT: I'll sustain the objection.
(Continued on next page)
BY MR. TURNER:
MR. TURNER: Let me see if I -- without talking about the number of people involved, let me just ask you again, what would the person or persons who posted these various messages have to have in order for you to successfully validate those messages using DPR's public key?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It would have to be the same private key for the entire duration.
MR. TURNER: If at any time those messages, one of those messages was posted, the person posting them lacked DPR's private key, would you have been able to validate that message with DPR's public key?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No. It would come back as a bad signature.
MR. TURNER: Let's go back to where we left off yesterday afternoon and, Mr. Evert, can you pull up 128C, please.
MR. TURNER: Just to recap. Yesterday you testified that you saw the defendant enter the library when you were in this area depicted in the photo, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Correct.
MR. TURNER: And when you saw the defendant enter the library where, again, were you situated?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I was seated across the street.
MR. TURNER: Would you use the laser pointer.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I can't -- right here.
MR. TURNER: Okay. And who was with you when you saw him in the library?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was computer scientist Tom Kiernan.
MR. TURNER: You testified yesterday that a few minutes after the defendant entered the library, what happened to DPR's online status?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: He went online.
MR. TURNER: And did you begin chatting with him after that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: And where were you while you were chatting with him?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I was seated outside, again, on the bench across the street from the library.
MR. TURNER: Same place?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Same place.
MR. TURNER: And who, if anyone, was with you by that point, at the point when you were chatting with DPR?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: FBI Special Agent Chris Tarbell.
MR. TURNER: And where had Tom Kiernan gone?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Tom Kiernan had entered into the library once he saw Mr. Ulbricht enter.
MR. TURNER: Could you put up 129C on the top half of the page, Mr. Evert. That's too much. Just the bottom few lines, please. There we go. Thank you. Can you put 128C below.
MR. TURNER: So you said at some point during your chat, you gave a signal to FBI Agent Chris Tarbell to do what?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: To effect arrest.
MR. TURNER: And at what point in the chat was that again?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That was after the last message that I received from Dread Pirate Roberts which said "okay, which post."
MR. TURNER: And then you typed in the last two lines of this chat?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: And where were you by that point?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I was still seated across the street.
MR. TURNER: After typing in the last two lines of the chat, what did you do next?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: After I got done with the last line that I typed in there, "there was the one with atlantis," I got up and moved over to the library, so I entered the library.
MR. TURNER: So can you take a look at Government Exhibit 128D, please. Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's the outside of the Glen Park library.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 128D into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 128D received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: So you say you went inside the library?
MR. TURNER: And the patron area is located where?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: As you enter into the library, the stairs go immediately to the right and go up into the library.
MR. TURNER: So could you look at 128F, please. Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's the stairway going up inside the Glen Park Library.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 128F into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 128F received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Is this where you go after you enter the library?
MR. TURNER: And who is with you at this point?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Special Agent Chris Tarbell.
MR. TURNER: Do you still have your computer open at this point?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do.
MR. TURNER: Are you still logged onto staff chat?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I'm still connected to the Internet and still logged into the staff chat.
MR. TURNER: Had you heard anything from Dread Pirate Roberts since you sent those last two messages?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There were no replies, no.
MR. TURNER: And at any time at this point if DPR had tried to respond to your last chat message, would you have received it on your screen?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I would have.
MR. TURNER: What happened next?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: As I was standing on the stairs with Agent Tarbell, the other agents inside that effected the arrest brought Mr. Ulbricht to us in handcuffs and turned him over to Agent Tarbell. And I then shut my laptop and put it in my book bag and then escorted Mr. Ulbricht and with Agent Tarbell down the stairs of the library.
MR. TURNER: Could you pull up, Mr. Evert, 129C, please, and could you zoom in at the end of the chat there.
MR. TURNER: Is the time when you shut your laptop that you just described reflected anywhere in the chat?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it is.
MR. TURNER: Where is it reflected?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It says you have disconnected at 10:16:36.
MR. TURNER: Okay. So what did you see -- excuse me. What did you do next?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: After I disconnected and we escorted Mr. Ulbricht downstairs, Agent Tarbell performed a pat-down search of Mr. Ulbricht. And then I waited there for about a minute or two before another agent came from downstairs and I asked him to stay with Mr. Ulbricht and Agent Tarbell so I could go upstairs into the library. And I wanted to go up there so I could see if there was a computer and if there was anything on that computer.
MR. TURNER: So then what happened next?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: So I entered the library. And I proceeded into the library and I saw from a distance a computer scientist Tom Kiernan sitting at a seat in the library. So -- and he had a laptop in his lap.
And so I proceeded to him and sat down next to him and observed the computer. And I saw on the computer screen the same chat that I had with Dread Pirate Roberts minutes earlier.
MR. TURNER: What was Tom Kiernan doing exactly?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Tom Kiernan had his Blackberry phone out at the time. He was taking photographs of the computer screen.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at what's been marked as Government Exhibit 201H, please. Do you recognize what's on this photograph, this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's the computer screen that I saw in the library the day after I had met up with the computer scientist Tom Kiernan.
MR. TURNER: Did you take this photograph?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: Does it fairly and accurately depict what you remember seeing on the screen?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it does.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 201H into evidence.
THE COURT: No objection?
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 201H received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Could you zoom into the box here. Mr. Evert, could you compare that side by side with Exhibit 129C and zoom in here, please.
MR. TURNER: So what are we looking at on the left side?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: On the left side was what I saw on the computer in the library and on the right side is my chat.
MR. TURNER: And how do they compare?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: They're identical.
MR. TURNER: Identical except for what?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Except for -- instead of "dread" it says "me," but then my username cirrus is the same on the other screen and the colors are different.
MR. TURNER: Just to be clear for the record, it says "me" on which copy of the conversation?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: On the left-hand side.
MR. TURNER: The image of the computer that Mr. Kiernan was taking photographs of?
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at Exhibit 201I, please.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Again, it's the computer that I saw in the library.
MR. TURNER: And again, did you take this photograph?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: Does it fairly and accurately reflect what you remember seeing on the screen?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it does.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 201I into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 201I received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Could you zoom into here, Mr. Evert. Can you put it on the bottom half of the screen. The top half. It doesn't matter. Mr. Evert, before you do anything else, can you zoom in here, the last line of the chat.
MR. TURNER: The last line that you sent to Dread Pirate Roberts was "there was the one with the atlantis," right?
MR. TURNER: What did that refer to again?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It referred to a flagged message that I was asking Dread Pirate Roberts to look at.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you put 129D down at the bottom of the screen and zoom in here.
MR. TURNER: Do you remember this exhibit from yesterday?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: Where did this exhibit come from down at the bottom of the screen?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is the flagged message page from the admin panel that I took.
MR. TURNER: That you took from your computer?
MR. TURNER: Can you back out of the top, Mr. Evert, and zoom in here.
MR. TURNER: Did you see that same post on Mr. Ulbricht's computer that you had directed DPR to look at?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at what's been marked as Government Exhibit 201J?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this exhibit?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: Is this a photograph that you took?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, it's not.
MR. TURNER: Does it fairly and accurately depict something that you saw on Mr. Ulbricht's screen that day?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it does.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 201J into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 201J received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Can you zoom into here, Mr. Evert.
MR. TURNER: What are we looking at here?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is what I observed on the computer that showed the account was logged in as dread at the dot-onion address for the staff chat.
MR. TURNER: Can you compare that with 129B, Mr. Evert.
MR. TURNER: And where is this image from?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is from my computer.
MR. TURNER: And this was the status window you used to check on DPR's online activity?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it was.
MR. TURNER: How does the dread username compare to the dread username you saw on the screen here?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's the same.
MR. TURNER: And the avatar?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's the same.
MR. TURNER: And what program was this that was open on Mr. Ulbricht's laptop?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That would have been Pidgin.
MR. TURNER: How do you spell that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: P-I-D-G-I-N.
MR. TURNER: Do you remember yesterday we looked at the chat instructions that DPR had given you on how to set up staff chat?
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you pull those up. It's Government Exhibit 127 right here.
MR. TURNER: "Hey, we're all on a more secure chat channel. Here are the instructions for joining in: Download and install Pidgin."
Can you go down to the bottom of this message.
"add buddy dread@."
Is this the same dread username you saw again from Mr. Ulbricht's computer?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That is.
MR. TURNER: So about how long were you -- did you spend looking at the computer while you were at the upstairs of the library?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Only a few minutes I was up there.
MR. TURNER: And what did you do after you were done?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: After that, I went back downstairs out of the library and met back up with Special Agent Tarbell who at that point, with several other agents, they had Mr. Ulbricht inside a car sitting in there, and then I observed him read Mr. Ulbricht his Miranda rights.
MR. TURNER: What happened next?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: And then near that area, too, the rest of the team that was there that was going to effect a search warrant then on Mr. Ulbricht's residence was meeting up, and we basically talked about how we're going to go over to the house and approach it.
MR. TURNER: What house?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Mr. Ulbricht's residence.
MR. TURNER: And why were you going there?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: To effect a search warrant.
MR. TURNER: So what happened next?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I then -- I left that area and drove over to Mr. Ulbricht's residence. I parked outside down the street from the residence and I waited for the rest of the team to arrive. Shortly thereafter, the computer scientist Tom Kiernan and another agent arrived in a separate car, and I joined them in their car. And agent -- or computer scientist Tom Kiernan still had the computer with him at the time.
MR. TURNER: And what was he doing with it at the time?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: He was still taking photographs of it.
MR. TURNER: And what happened next after you joined him in the car?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I asked him whether or not he could click back on the browser that was on the flagged message page to see if there was anything before that, and I was asking that because I know --
MR. TURNER: Let me interrupt you. Click back on the browser, what do you mean by browser?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was the Tor browser that was up, the web browser. I wanted to see if they'd hit the "back" button to see the previous pages that might have been visited on that browser.
MR. TURNER: What was on the browser when you saw it in the library again?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was on the flagged message page.
MR. TURNER: The one with the Atlantis reference in it?
MR. TURNER: And why did you want to hit the "back" button on the browser? What were you trying to learn?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I know from my account from when I access that page I had to be logged in under my administrator account. So I wanted to see what account he used to enter into that flagged message page.
MR. TURNER: So what happened next?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: So when he clicked "back" on the browser, it then took to the support page, which you would use to click to get to that flagged message page, so the support admin panel came up on the screen.
MR. TURNER: Would you take a look at Government Exhibit 201K, please.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: What is it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is what appeared on the computer when the computer scientist Tom Kiernan hit "back" on the browser. This is the support page.
MR. TURNER: Did you take the photo?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: Does it accurately and fairly reflect what you remember seeing on the screen?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it does.
MR. TURNER: Government offers 201K into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 201K received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: If we could zoom into this part here.
MR. TURNER: What are we looking at again?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is, again, the support panel that you use to access the flagged message page that I was responsible for moderating.
MR. TURNER: Could you put 127D below that, Mr. Evert.
MR. TURNER: What is 127D again?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That was the screen shot that I took when I originally got access to that support panel.
MR. TURNER: Could you go back to 201K, Mr. Evert, and can you zoom in up here.
MR. TURNER: What's the little icon here next to "support"?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That would be the "back" button.
MR. TURNER: The little icon above the "back" button?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Oh. I'm sorry. It's that's the man on the camel, the green logo.
MR. TURNER: From what?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: From Silk Road.
MR. TURNER: And the web address, do you recognize that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: What is it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's the Silk Road's market URL.
MR. TURNER: And it has the slash support?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yeah, the forward slash support is what you would type in or what I'd type in to access that page.
MR. TURNER: And what is this over here? It says SR?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's a folder that says SR.
MR. TURNER: So, did you go back any further in the browser?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, we did.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at Government Exhibit 201L.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's a what appeared on the screen on the computer after we hit "back" again.
MR. TURNER: This is the second time you hit "back"?
MR. TURNER: Did you take this photograph?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: Does it fairly and accurately reflect what you remember seeing on the screen at this point?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it does.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 201L into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 201L received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, could you try zooming in here, including the address bar.
MR. TURNER: Had you ever seen this page before?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I have not.
MR. TURNER: Just to be clear, you hadn't at the time, right?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Well, previous to that, no, I had never seen it -- never saw that screen before.
MR. TURNER: And the address at the top, what did it say this time instead of "support"?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It says the silkroadmarket.onion/mastermind.
MR. TURNER: And there's some names under here: Inigo, libertas, cirrus. Tell us who those are.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Those are the other support staff members minus samesamebutdifferent.
MR. TURNER: Do you know whether DPR ever kept track of your time on the site?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: After that I knew.
MR. TURNER: Can you back out, please. Can you zoom in here.
MR. TURNER: Could you read off what it says here?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It says escrow db in parenthesis USD. And then a number $4,146,736.57. And then in parenthesis, it's bitcoins 30,951.60. And then there's escrow db, which is 22,234.91 bitcoins, and accounts db, which is 180,448.96 bitcoin.
MR. TURNER: And from your experience working on the support staff at Silk Road, do you know whether at any given time on Silk Road there were various pending transactions into the escrow system of Silk Road?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There were.
MR. TURNER: Could you back out and zoom in down here.
MR. TURNER: The bottom: Unshipped, in transit, resolution. Can you remind the jury what those categories relate to with respect to Silk Road?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: The listing, when you place the order, it would say "processing." And then once a vendor will mark it as being shipped, it will say "in transit." So -- and then if -- there is resolutions as well. There would be -- there's a resolution mode for any order that you placed you can put into resolution.
MR. TURNER: To put into resolution means what again?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It means to try to resolve basically a package that didn't arrive or a claim that it wasn't shipped.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at -- well, let me ask you, did you go back any further or was this it in the browser?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No. I hit "back" again on it.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at Government Exhibit 201M.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this page?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's what appeared on the screen after I hit "back" again.
MR. TURNER: Did you take this photo?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: Does it fairly and accurately reflect what you remember seeing?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it does.
MR. TURNER: The government offers 201M into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 201M received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Could you zoom into this corner, Mr. Evert.
MR. TURNER: So what are we looking at here? Do you know?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is that same URL, the silkroadmarket URL, forward slash support, forward slash landing. This is the same page that appeared on my screen when I was given directions by Dread Pirate Roberts to access the support panel. He gave me that URL and this was the screen that appeared that I put in my username on the left and my password on the right before I could go.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, could you put that on top and on the bottom, could you bring up 127C, please. Could you zoom into the area of that hyperlink.
MR. TURNER: Do you remember 127C, an exhibit that we looked at yesterday?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: Can you remind the jury what it is.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was a chat that occurred between myself and Dread Pirate Roberts on the staff chat where he gave me instructions and gave me more authority to access the support admin panel on the marketplace.
MR. TURNER: And at one minute, 14 seconds -- excuse me -- at 01:14:24 it says "dread: Now go to," and then it provides the silkroad.onion address/support/landing, is that the page that we see here up top?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it is.
MR. TURNER: And then it says "and enter your user and pass and let me know what happens."
So if you were on the page, what username would you enter there?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: On the left-hand side, I would have entered in "cirrus."
MR. TURNER: And what username did you see when you hit the "back" button on Mr. Ulbricht's computer?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Dread Pirate Roberts.
MR. TURNER: And what did that indicate to you?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That the person had signed into that computer using Dread Pirate Roberts.
MR. TURNER: So what happened next after you were in the car looking at the computer?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: The rest of the team for the search warrant arrived and we effected the search warrant on the home.
MR. TURNER: What type of residence was it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was a multifamily home, like a multiflat.
MR. TURNER: Would you take a look at what is marked as 130A as in apple.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's the outside of Mr. Ulbricht's home.
MR. TURNER: Did you take the photo yourself?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: Does it fairly and accurately reflect the residence as you remember it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it does.
MR. TURNER: The government moves 130A into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 130A received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Which one is it on here?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's this one right here. That's the front entrance.
MR. TURNER: The brown one?
MR. TURNER: So did you personally participate in the search?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: Were you able to locate the defendant's bedroom in the residence?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I was.
MR. TURNER: How were you able to identify his bedroom?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There were personal effects in the room that belonged to Mr. Ulbricht.
MR. TURNER: Such as what?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There was a driver's license, a passport, as well as credit cards and other bank statements.
MR. TURNER: May I approach.
THE COURT: Yes.
MR. TURNER: I'm showing you what's been marked as Government Exhibit 134A. Do you recognize the document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: And what is it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's Mr. Ulbricht's U.S. passport.
MR. TURNER: Could you take a look at what's been marked as Government Exhibit 135 -- I'm sorry -- Government Exhibit 134.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize those documents?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize those?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It's photographs of Mr. Ulbricht's U.S. passport and the pages contained therein.
MR. TURNER: Did you yourself take those photographs?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I did not.
MR. TURNER: Do the photographs accurately reflect the pages of the passport?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, they do.
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibits 134 and 134A into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 134, 134A received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Could you publish Exhibit 134, Mr. Evert, and can you go to the second page.
MR. TURNER: In looking at the passport, can you tell where the travel markings are from here from the top half?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I could. It's from Dominica. It's entry and exit stamps.
MR. TURNER: What is Dominica?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Caribbean country.
MR. TURNER: And what are the dates of the travel indicated, the enter and exit?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There's -- the blue stamp on the left -- on the right, sorry -- is an enter stamp and it's from November 15, 2012, and the stamp on the left is an exit stamp from Dominica from December 4, 2012.
MR. TURNER: Did you find anything related to Silk Road in the bedroom?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: What did you find?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: In the trash, there was, in the bedroom, I located the rest of Mr. Ulbricht's belongings. We found -- there was a paper that was crumpled up in the trash, two yellow sheets of paper that contained writing on it that I recognized as things that were similar to Silk Road.
MR. TURNER: Did it say the Silk Road -- did the paper have the words "Silk Road" written on it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, they did not.
MR. TURNER: So what enabled you to make the link that it came from Silk Road?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There was language on it such as, like, talking about transactions and buyer weights and ratings; and there was also, like, a way to, like, rate the users on Silk Road that I recognized as well, language that was similar to that.
MR. TURNER: How did you recognize it? Was there something going on on Silk Road with respect to the rating system?
MR. DRATEL: Objection; leading.
THE COURT: Sustained.
MR. TURNER: I'll rephrase.
MR. TURNER: How did you recognize it as being related to anything going on at Silk Road at the time?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: There was a -- they were fairly recent, within early September, talks from Dread Pirate Roberts about revamping and redoing the buyer rating system on Silk Road. So there were discussions that were openly talked about by Dread Pirate Roberts about redoing that system.
MR. TURNER: Can you take a look at Government Exhibit 130, please.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Okay.
MR. TURNER: Do you recognize these pages?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize them?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: These were the sheets of paper that we found in the trash.
MR. TURNER: Did you personally participate in that seizure?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I was. I witnessed it happening; yes.
MR. TURNER: So there are two pages at issue?
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 130 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: The previous objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Government Exhibit 130 is received. The objection is overruled.
(Government's Exhibit 130 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you publish Exhibit 130. First of all, can you zoom in on the very top.
MR. TURNER: There's, sort of, an algebraic formulas up top. Do you see that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: That would be accurate.
MR. TURNER: Zoom out and zoom into this area.
MR. TURNER: Okay. Can you make out what it says there starting with "ratings"?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yeah. It says ratings, then buyer weight at time of purchase X TX size X and age factor, followed by calculate on page load and generate bars.
MR. TURNER: Can you highlight "generate bars and ratings," Mr. Evert, and then put that on top.
MR. TURNER: Now what I'd like you to do is take a look at Government Exhibit 131. Do you recognize what these pages are? Where they're from?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do. They're screen shots that I took of posts made by Dread Pirate Roberts on October 6, 2013.
MR. TURNER: And what do the posts concern?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: These had to do with the overhaul that Dread Pirate Roberts was discussing in the feedback and the buyer ratings.
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, could you put up page three of Government Exhibit -- I'm sorry.
The government would move Exhibit 131 into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: Objection on hearsay grounds and Vayner.
THE COURT: The objections are overruled. Government Exhibit 131 is received.
(Government's Exhibit 131 received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Mr. Evert, can you zoom into just the first paragraph in the heading.
MR. TURNER: So the date of this post is August 11, 2013, correct?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Correct.
MR. TURNER: And the title is "feedback system overhaul," right?
MR. TURNER: And it says, Update 08/18/2013 2213 UTC. Wow! So much feedback and ideas for ratings. I think this will be a major focus for a while until we can really flesh everything out so both vendors and buyers can have all of the information and tools they need to decide who they want to work with. At this point, there are so many things to do, we have to start thinking about what order to do things and how to transition. Everyone responds to change either positively or negatively, and I'll keep doing my best to keep the negative to a minimum.
Can you scroll down a little bit, Mr. Evert. Can you zoom back in again. Great. Can you zoom in right here. All right.
You see at the top it talks about ratings and it says calculate on page load and generate bars.
Update 2028 UTC: Okay, I've rolled out the first set of major changes. We've done away with a percent based rating score entirely and are now displaying the ratings as a bar chart that shows the relative weight of each rating category (one through five) and a total average.
Could you go back up to the document here in the top and scroll down. Maybe could you pull out a little bit and expand. Can you highlight buyer weight, vendor weight, sales volume, age factor. And now can you scroll down here and open that up more, please. And go down here starting with the long line of text:
So here's what we have so far. I want to rework how both buyers and vendors are related. We've identified six critical dimensions that I think effect how SR users should be judged, they are...
Mr. Evert, I want to point out buyer weight, account age, vendor weight, total sales volume.
Now, was this the only post that DPR made on August 2013 about revising, overhauling the rating system?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, it was not.
THE COURT: Is this a good time that we can make our mid-morning break, Mr. Turner?
MR. TURNER: Five more minutes along these lines --
THE COURT: Why don't we take a break right now if it's going to be five minutes. Ladies and gentlemen, we'll take our mid-morning break. I want to remind you not to talk to each other or anybody else about this case. Thank you.
(Jury excused)(Continued on next page)
(In open court; jury not present)
THE COURT: You can take a break yourself.
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Thank you.
(Witness temporarily excused)
THE COURT: The reason for the break right then was one of the jurors made eye contact and indicated that he wanted a break.
MR. TURNER: Sorry for not picking that up.
THE COURT: That's okay. Because sometimes when I've been just trying to find the right time, having you continue to a logical end is neither here nor there for me.
I'll use this opportunity to address two of the objections that I overruled, both as to GX 130 and GX 131. In the Court's view, neither of those were being offered for the truth and therefore the hearsay objection would not be a relevant objection. In terms of I think the venue which you mentioned as to 131, Mr. Dratel, that was addressed in my in limine motion. Did you mean Vayner?
MR. DRATEL: I said Vayner. I'm sorry.
THE COURT: You said "venue." All right, Vayner. For the Vayner, then my ruling would be similar to that from yesterday, which is, these documents that we have gone through all have been appropriately authenticated as the require; so therefore, the Vayner objection would not be appropriate or would not be sustained.
MR. DRATEL: When they come back out, would the Court instruct the jury about 130, 131 about not for the truth, your traditional instruction in that regard?
THE COURT: Sure. I'm happy to go through and to do that.
MR. DRATEL: Thank you.
THE COURT: I think it's obvious because it's not about whether or not -- it's just for the fact that the words "buyer weight, vendor weight" was on the page, not whether or not they were, in fact, ultimately taken into consideration.
MR. TURNER: I don't think there's any unique statement on the document that can carry any truth value.
THE COURT: That's sort of my point; yes. But nevertheless, I'll just indicate that those are not for the truth. If Mr. Dratel would like that, I'm happy to do that.
MR. DRATEL: Thank you.
THE COURT: Is there anything else that folks would like to raise before we take own break.
MR. DRATEL: There's one issue.
THE COURT: At the side bar, sure, come on up.
(Continued on next page)
(At the side bar)
MS. LEWIS: I wanted to bring it to the Court's attention that I may have inadvertently addressed -- I walked into a crowded subway car at Union Square and I saw there was woman behind me. And seeing a juror in the courtroom makes me think it may have been her.
THE COURT: All right.
MS. LEWIS: Such is life.
THE COURT: Thank you. Thank you for disclosing that.
MS. LEWIS: That was all.
THE COURT: It's life in the New York City subways at rush hour.
Is there anything anybody thinks needs to be done?
MR. DRATEL: As long as it wasn't a New York Post reporter behind her.
THE COURT: I think we're all set. Does anybody want the Court to do anything with that?
MR. TURNER: No.
THE COURT: Thank you.
Let's take our own break for a few minutes before we resume.
(Recess)
(Continued on next page)
(In open court; jury present)
THE COURT: Now, one thing I wanted to mention before we continue is there were two documents that we were just hearing testimony with respect to. One was the photograph of the crumpled notes, that's GX 130, and the other was the buyer ratings. What would you call it? Posts?
MR. TURNER: Yes.
THE COURT: The posts at Government Exhibit 131 that the government and the witness were going back and forth on, these are not offered for the truth as to whether or not, for instance, the calculation that was put forward, in fact, is the right calculation or the truth of any of the information. It's just for the fact that these words appeared on the page.
Mr. Turner, you can go ahead and continue.
MR. TURNER: Could we put Government Exhibit 131, the page back on the screen, please.
You can publish the whole page. Zoom in there. We were just looking at these references to buyer weight, account age, vendor weight, sales volume, etc. Mr. Evert, can you scroll all the way down to the bottom of the message.
MR. TURNER: "There are a couple of other changes I have in mind, but this post is already getting long and complex, so let's leave it at that. I look forward to hearing your feedback."
MR. TURNER: Could you now put up page two of the exhibit, please.
MR. TURNER: So this is a forum post approximately 20 days later. Is that right?
MR. TURNER: It says more updates and ratings and reviews overhaul. And I'll read a few lines of it:
The latest, the buyers may remove a weighting and/or review from the recent orders link on their account pages. The price of the transaction has been obscured in the same way that buyer stats are when the review is displayed. The style has been slimmed down further. Buyer weight now has the same freshness factor included in the rating and vendor weights (old transactions don't count as much toward a buyer's weight.)
Was this a continuing topic of discussion in the forum posts around this time?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it was.
MR. TURNER: So now let me go, please, to page one of the exhibit. So this the approximately 12 days later?
MR. TURNER: And it says:
Buyer ratings September 12, 2013. Let's see more -- excuse me. Let's see, where were we? Oh, yeah, ratings and review overhaul.
There's an emoticon there.
Can you focus in on what's been marked with that has the paragraph two number on it.
It says labeling four of five as "solid, would recommend" is bringing down my average. And that's in quotes.
Then it says don't worry, it's a level playing field and all vendors are experiencing this. The net effect is to give more info to buyers, distinguishing "solid" vendors from "outstanding" ones.
Can you just explain what this photograph is about?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is in reference to the marketplace when a buyer would leave a rating for a vendor, they could label them one through five basically as far as five being the highest. And he's talking about marketing or trying to make sure you could differentiate between them being outstanding or just so-so, I guess.
(Continued on next page)
MR. TURNER: OK. And the quote here, was this like a comment that somebody had made previous to the post, the "labeling 4 of 5 as 'solid, would recommend' is bringing down my average"?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I don't recall the previous messages on the post.
MR. TURNER: OK. Did you find -- well, you said before there were two pieces of paper you found in the trash?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, there were two sheets.
MR. TURNER: Could you put up Government Exhibit 130, page 2, on the bottom, Mr. Evert, and keep that same thing up on the screen. Could you zoom in here.
MR. TURNER: OK. This is the second piece of scrap paper that you found in Mr. Ulbricht's bedroom, in the trash?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it was.
MR. TURNER: And the top line says: "5- Wow! Outstanding.
"5 - Wow! Best of the best."
MR. TURNER: Can you highlight "outstanding" there, Mr. Evert and "outstanding" up here.
MR. TURNER: "4 - solid, would recommend."
Can you highlight that?
"3 - Meh, they're OK, I guess.
"2 - definitely needs improvement.
"1 - Never again!"
Do you recognize some of this specific terminology from Silk Road?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was similar exactly to what Dread Pirate Roberts said in his posts.
MR. TURNER: Could you cut out to the first page of Government Exhibit 130, full screen, please, and zoom in here.
MR. TURNER: So what was down in the middle of this page?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It was a name and a telephone number below it.
MR. TURNER: And the name is?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Danielle.
MR. TURNER: And there is a phone number here.
MR. TURNER: And, your Honor, just to make the record clear, we've redacted it from the screen but not from the paper copy that will be available to the jurors?
THE COURT: All right.
MR. TURNER: So after you were done with the search, did you ever log back into the chat channel you had been communicating with Dread Pirate Roberts on prior to the defendant's arrest?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I did.
MR. TURNER: First take a look, actually, at Government Exhibit 129E, as in Edward.
Do you recognize this document?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, I do.
MR. TURNER: How do you recognize it?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: It is a screenshot of my entire computer screen I took on October 2, 2013.
MR. TURNER: That is the day after the arrest?
MR. TURNER: The government offers Exhibit 129E into evidence.
MR. DRATEL: No objection, your Honor.
THE COURT: Received.
(Government's Exhibit 129E received in evidence)
MR. TURNER: Could you zoom in here, Mr. Evert.
MR. TURNER: So up 'til now we've seen a copy of that chat log in the log forum. Is this how it looked on your computer?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: This is how it looked on my computer.
MR. TURNER: Now could we go back to the log screen at 129C, please. And go down just to the bottom part here. Starting a little bit farther up, starting with "Dread."
MR. TURNER: OK. So the conversation, again, left off at 10:14 with you saying, "There was the one with the Atlantis." You disconnected at 10:16.
Now, if the Dread Pirate Roberts had ever tried to respond to your last message after you disconnected, would you have had any way of receiving that message?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: The message would have came the next time I logged into the server.
MR. TURNER: And when was the next time you logged into the chat server?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: At 3:32 a.m.
MR. TURNER: UTC?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: UTC -- 3:33, sorry, a.m.
MR. TURNER: That would have been at 8 p.m. the night after the arrest?
MR. TURNER: Had you received any reply from the Dread Pirate Roberts by that point?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, I had not.
MR. TURNER: All right. Did you login subsequently after that?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I did login after that.
MR. TURNER: When was the next time you logged in?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Again, I believe hours later, so 7:19 a.m.
MR. TURNER: About midnight that night?
MR. TURNER: Still no reply?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No reply.
MR. TURNER: Was the Silk Road website still operational by this point?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Yes, it was.
MR. TURNER: When was it shut down?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: October 2nd, around -- I think like around 10 a.m., I want to say, 11.
MR. TURNER: So the following day?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: I believe so.
MR. TURNER: And when was the defendant's arrest made public?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: At that time.
MR. TURNER: At what time?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: Around 10/11 a.m. Pacific.
MR. TURNER: October 2nd?
MR. TURNER: All right. So up until that time, did the defendant -- excuse me, up until that time, from between the time when the defendant was arrested to the time when the site was shut down and the arrest was made public, did Dread Pirate Roberts ever respond to your last chat message?
JARED DER-YEGHIAYAN: No, he did not.
MR. TURNER: That is all I have, your Honor.
THE COURT: All right. Thank you.
Mr. Dratel.
MR. DRATEL: Thank you, your Honor.